Thoughts on the death system...

[rustediron]

I know there is the negative hp unconscious thing, but what about making characters who have died within a few rounds able to be resuscitated?

Perhaps up to ten rounds after death you can be 'resuscitated', basically you are very much easier to restore to life and therefore cost a lower number of diamonds, but still get the death/rez effects as above.

I quite like this idea, though I think 10 rounds might be a bit too long.

[FunkGuru]

I seemed to recall CPR had kinda better chance of success up to about ten minutes. You're pretty much worm food after that.

[rustediron]

Lol, there should be a special rule added: have shocking grasp cast on your body within 10 mins of death for a chance of success

[valenator]

Perhaps up to ten rounds after death you can be 'resuscitated', basically you are very much easier to restore to life and therefore cost a lower number of diamonds, but still get the death/rez effects as above.

That's the area between 0 and -10 hitpoints. For 10 rounds, you're very easily brought back to life.

What about death/rez effects, like a temporary lowering of level? Would add to the experience of being 'brought back' and being weakened.

That's already in place. You're rez'd and lose xp, maybe a level, and then you earn it back, making the loss temporary.

Subdual shouldn't be activated until a pvp situation arises. Otherwise, it's a potential exploit.

Seriously, this death system is not that harsh. New pc's get three get-out-of-death-free cards. DM's readily rez PC's pwnd during DM events. Group up, play smart, and enjoy the new sense of accomplishment from not dying.

[Handsomeman]

personally, i think there should be a timer or option for respawning. my character has been dead for a week or more now. and i've stopped playing for that long because of it. he wandered into the forest alone and got killed by gnolls. though i admit, its entirely my fault for getting him killed like that in the first place. even if i get stuck in the forest of eternal night forever, and it is a consequence i can accept. it certainly has made me want to play less due to the fact that playing on my main character means waiting there hoping someone would come along and res. it isn't really my idea of fun. players usually dont care about ressing other characters if its going to cost them a lot, i would imagine. my suggestion is maybe add an option where the shadow creature would take maybe 2x exp more for a self respawn, or maybe a day long timer.

[DB]

While I believe the death system is fine the way it is, I do agree that perhaps an alternative to waiting for a raise from another player sounds good, maybe the timer or double xp cost as was suggested above... or maybe encouraging people to raise others, its always nice to have people pledge allegience, give you gold or something for bringing their sorry ass to life Unless your some grubby paladin you don't do things for free, stuck up paladins.... always trying to ruin an honest days work *goes back to looting the dead*

[mumsesk]

After reading the posts here I must say I do not like the current death system. Having your favourite character dead for a week in RL? We all play this game for fun correct? An xp penalty sure, but I couldn't imagine playing a char for months then happen to have an unfortunate encounter, then not being able to play again for a variable amount of time.

Just my 2cents.

[valenator]

I couldn't imagine playing a char for months then happen to have an unfortunate encounter, then not being able to play again for a variable amount of time.

I can't imagine playing a character, having him or her die, and then be inexplicably alive again with absolutely no consequence.

Death happens. If a PC has made strong friendships, then those friends will go out of their way to find the missing friend and bring him or her back to life. Otherwise, when the crap hitteth the fan, it's time to roll up a new PC. The system Sundren has implemented makes players stop treating death as an inconvenience and creates a much more dynamic experience.

[mumsesk]

I never said without consequence, valenator. But surely if your character is evil you will not have many friends at all. So this leads me to believe that this system is biased by either being of good persuasion, or somehow having "friends" to come to your aid.

This system is implicitly stating that an evil character really has no chance at being raised.

[Brandy02]

I think I was misunderstood....

I really like a challenging game, so I agree that the new death system is better, because the former was a joke.

BUT I play this game to have some fun and don't want to get frustrated by it.

So a death system should be painful, but not frustrating.
Deaths will happen, if not through misadventure or dumbness, then through lag and CTDs (I think that is overlooked).

In the momentary death system there are three ways out of the FEN:

1. Ress-Siggies (no penalty at all)

2. Temple/cleric raise/ress: costs min 6 diamonds and exp penalty.

3. Ress by DM grace (dont know what will be needed to get that, penalty depends)

This means you are stuck in the FEN if you don't have ress-siggies, lots of gold, 6-10 diamonds or a DM, who had a very good day.
So your charakter is out of the game and you will have a hard time to get in again (frustrating, especially for those that play only one char).

My suggestions:
-Put in a timer that will allow the player to respawn through that FEN-beast. No help from outside needed. Time should be set at 3-5 RL days (enough punishment I think). Further penalties: heavy exp-loss (even more than temple-ress), remove all the gold from the char.
This might be a painful setback, but atleast your not out of the game anymore.

-scenario: Player A is dead, but he has 10 diamonds in his inventory. Player B carries A to the temple, but he hasn't the gold or diamonds to ress A. Today the abbot would say, that A cannot be ressed. But I would suggest to change the script in that way, that it first looks into the inventory of A and finding the needed amount of diamonds, resses him and removes the diamonds.
This would reward players that prepare for their untimely demise and save B the trouble to find other players willing to pool their funds for the ress of A.

I don't think that this makes death a nice experience, it just simplifies it a bit.
I also like Funkgurus idea with the temporary negative level.

Saulus, I also don't see where this is going entirely against the changes you made.

Brandy02

Sorry, for my bad english but it is not my 1st language.

[Maevan2]

Further penalties: heavy exp-loss (even more than temple-ress), remove all the gold from the char.
This might be a painful setback, but atleast your not out of the game anymore.

I think dropping the char to level 3 and removin all gold except for 1000 coins sounds quite reasonable to me

My character Laarn has been dead for more than a week. He died when he was alone in the Necropolis and has been either eaten by the zombies or has become one of them in the meantime. So i suppose i'll just delete him. If nobody misses your char then thats a good hint that you should start from scratch

[dieOrg]

My character Laarn has been dead for more than a week

*sorry off topic*

Noooooo, Calandra will be devastated when she finds out . This must be like her 3rd friend that went missing lately.

*on topic*

Having a total RP experience of 90 odd logins into Sundren, dieing is quite a daunting thought as I've got only 1 character that I can seriously put effort into...and restarting another is probably not an option....

But Im here to experience RP with Sundren's rules, so this is not a complaint but an observation. I.e. Im scared sh....ss .

[FunkGuru]

That's the area between 0 and -10 hitpoints. For 10 rounds, you're very easily brought back to life..

Actually, I said besides that pretty clearly.
Because you're not dead, just unconscious and bleeding.
If you have good constitution you wake up.
Dead people don't 'wake up', but can be resuscitated.

That's already in place. You're rez'd and lose xp, maybe a level, and then you earn it back, making the loss temporary.

What I was suggesting is not already in place.
Because I said added to the present system.
Not talking about just losing XP. Not the same thing at all.

[valenator]

Actually, I said besides that pretty clearly.
Because you're not dead, just unconscious and bleeding.
If you have good constitution you wake up.
Dead people don't 'wake up', but can be resuscitated.

I think we're disagreeing on the severity of NWN 2's "unconscious and bleeding." I've been unconscious and bleeding (yay, football!) with no risk of death. In this game, when you're bleeding out, we're talking about your body being so severely wracked that it will die if not attended within one minute or less. Imagine how badly one's bleeding if the blood loss is what finishes the character. I can't imagine being resuscitated after dying from extreme blood loss or having an axe buried so deep in my chest that I went from very positive HP to -10.

What I was suggesting is not already in place.
Because I said added to the present system.
Not talking about just losing XP. Not the same thing at all.

Right, you were saying to take a level from a PC upon resurrection and then give it back after so much time has passed to simulate the shock of the body from being rez'd. The current system already does that. You're rez'd, you lose XP (that which giveth levels), and then you earn it back.

[Xanderleo]

I can't imagine being resuscitated after dying from extreme blood loss or having an axe buried so deep in my chest that I went from very positive HP to -10.

I can't imagine fighting Gnolls and Goblins, never eating anything and standing in a rainstorm for hours upon hours everyday. Yet, we do.

People are concerned about realism only in certain aspects. It's funny to me that way, that it's unthinkable that a gravely wounded body could be resuscitated but not that an army of the walking dead would stroll through the crossroads or that an individual could single handedly alter the fabric of space and time.

The bottom line is you need suspend some manner of disbelief in a high fantasy setting. You want death to mean something? Shit, make it mean something. This is an rp server. If we need ultra-strict rules to force us into rp'ing maybe everyone should just go to an action server.

In the end, I can overlook things like me using a heal kit in the middle of a battle (how exactly did I apply that kit while dual weilding axes?) because we're working with a system that is only able to simulate things in a certain way to a certain degree. No amount of rule-mongering is going to fix this aspect of the game.