Specialist Wizards... Why mostly Necromancers?

[Kaldaris]

http://www.sundren.org/forum/showthread.php?t=528

LOL

There's lots of necromancers because it's 'bad ass' or something.

[Machiavelli]

http://www.sundren.org/forum/showthread.php?t=528

LOL

There's lots of necromancers because it's 'bad ass' or something.

Not constructive or helpful Kaldaris... that was a **** you post and nothing else. If you have something to contribute, please offer it, otherwise, please spare us your enormous bold font "LOL"s.

[Kaldaris]

Not constructive or helpful Kaldaris... that was a **** you post and nothing else. If you have something to contribute, please offer it, otherwise, please spare us your enormous bold font "LOL"s.

Look at it this way.

That post I linked was old.

Very old. It's showing that this is a . . Problem? No-- It's not even a problem, it's just the way it is. People are naturally attracted to Necromancers just like they're attracted to silent loner types or whatnot.

Here's what I've really been wanting to say, but haven't said. Specializing in a school isn't supposed to be a walk in the park, you're supposed to actually miss the spells you're barred from, and it seems like they're doing a good job of that.

[Scourn]

Picking what school you can not have would defently be very good. I know my my char sheet it has Generalist, but shes not because the things around her changed what she is focusing on now. Instead of going through a full character relevel/creation just to fix one thing, you just rp what school they focus on and take the spell focus feats of that school, I know its like that for a few people. I would defently toss out being able to do necromancer spells in a blink of a eye :P

[Wyvern76]

Hehe, of course it doesn't! The suggestion was just made with respect to the fact that people seem to be taking necromancy as a speciality, or nothing at all. I don't mind too much myself, but I figured the reason is probably to do with the schools in opposition.

It's obvious that people are taking Necromancy for Meta Power Gaming Reasons, not the background and RP of there characters. I think people that make chars "Builds" for power to the point of not making any RP sense that is the true problem.

I have a specialist wizard too, and I remember looking at the list and thinking that Necromancy was the only specialist not gimped. But I sucked it up and thought about my character and who she was, and choose Transmuter- even though a lonely Wiz/Rogue would really like a summon to help her flank.

[Machiavelli]

Look at it this way.

That post I linked was old.

Very old. It's showing that this is a . . Problem? No-- It's not even a problem, it's just the way it is. People are naturally attracted to Necromancers just like they're attracted to silent loner types or whatnot.

Here's what I've really been wanting to say, but haven't said. Specializing in a school isn't supposed to be a walk in the park, you're supposed to actually miss the spells you're barred from, and it seems like they're doing a good job of that.

If you checked what is actually lost out on as a specialist wizard (or even just the post at the start of this thread), you'd see that only a narrow choice of things are actually available to opt out on. Five out of eight specialities involve giving up one of two schools! It's not some EMO attraction to necromancy (or the even stronger emo attraction to generalist wizardry), it's about the opposed schools, and divination is an obvious one to give up.

Yes, I agree with you that specialisation should not be a walk in the park... this is true, giving up any school is a hard choice. My point was that people are not specializing, except to become necromancers, why the **** is it so? Why are they only becoming Necromancers? It's not some style thing, I'll bet you that much. I think they're doing it for the simple reason that it's currently the speciality where you really don't have to give much up (divination, so what?).

I know what you're saying Kaldaris (Oh god do I know what you mean by the silent loner blah blah blah type), and I thoroughly agree with you, but in this case I think you've missed something important.

Peace out yo!

[Rhifox]

Look at it this way.

That post I linked was old.

Very old. It's showing that this is a . . Problem? No-- It's not even a problem, it's just the way it is. People are naturally attracted to Necromancers just like they're attracted to silent loner types or whatnot.

Here's what I've really been wanting to say, but haven't said. Specializing in a school isn't supposed to be a walk in the park, you're supposed to actually miss the spells you're barred from, and it seems like they're doing a good job of that.

Necromancers are actually surprisingly rare in RP. While this is the case in some situations, in RP worlds outside of DnD I have found most people do not go for the necromancer route.

While what you say is part of the reason, it isn't the only one. Necromancer is the power build specialist because it is the only class that really gains anything from specializing (as I describe here in a previous thread), while it loses the overall 'weakest' school (Divination is great for the various things it can provide, but nothing it has is particularly 'useful' from a powerbuilding perspective). Therefore, not only do you get the 'silent loner' types who choose necromancy just because of that, but you also get the powerbuilders who choose it just because it gives the biggest bang for the buck (for the same reason warriors choose Bard-RDD).

[BrylliantInsnity]

If it's any consolation my Wizard is totally Enchantment spec. Not that I ever have time to play anymore with trying to find a job/preparing for job/christmas/being sick as a dog. ;D

[lostre]

lol I actually joined your PW just yesterday and I was planning on building a Sun Elven Wizard/EK.

I actually mad a post about it this morning at the official NWN forums since I wasnt a member here yet http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums...8879&forum=109

I am really frustrated at the way schools of magic work. I originally wanted to make my character a transmuter but then ZOMG mage armor is a conjuration spell.

the only "reasonable" option would be necromancy but my sun elf has nothing to do with this foul art. If anything Id like it to be my barred school not the one I specialize in.

So all this thinking has been holding me back to the draw board and I am really looking forward to play in Sundren which looks absolutely fantastic by the way

[Machiavelli]

Necromancers are actually surprisingly rare in RP. While this is the case in some situations, in RP worlds outside of DnD I have found most people do not go for the necromancer route.

While what you say is part of the reason, it isn't the only one. Necromancer is the power build specialist because it is the only class that really gains anything from specializing (as I describe here in a previous thread), while it loses the overall 'weakest' school (Divination is great for the various things it can provide, but nothing it has is particularly 'useful' from a powerbuilding perspective). Therefore, not only do you get the 'silent loner' types who choose necromancy just because of that, but you also get the powerbuilders who choose it just because it gives the biggest bang for the buck (for the same reason warriors choose Bard-RDD).

Well, I'm not in the habit of agreeing with Rhifox on the forums... but here I have to do so partially *pained expression* . First, the disagreement ! Necromancers don't have to be silent loner Emo types. My previous character was a necromancer, and people will attest that he was anything but that type. I'd have played him as a Necro irrespective of the opposition school, 'cos that was his character concept... but, as it stands, specialising in necromancy is the most obvious choice if you don't want to lose out on anything too essential (though Illusionist is a fair choice too, but still not as good now I consider the spell list). "Powerbuilding" may or may not be the right term, but the list of schools in opposition would tend to push people in the direction of necromancy in terms of the speciality which loses the least number of useful spells.

[Scavar]

Not sure how helpful it is, but in NWN I knew a nercomancer on a server I played on who was anything but silent. She did nothing but talk all the time, and slept around, and played with the dead.


I do agree with the specing for the schools though, being able to choose the two you are barred from, or at least changing it around would likely help mix up the magic some.

[Rhifox]

Well, I'm not in the habit of agreeing with Rhifox on the forums... but here I have to do so partially *pained expression* . First, the disagreement ! Necromancers don't have to be silent loner Emo types. My previous character was a necromancer, and people will attest that he was anything but that type. I'd have played him as a Necro irrespective of the opposition school, 'cos that was his character concept...

Actually, I was just agreeing with Kaldaris that many silent loner types do go necromancy, but I never said that all necromancers are like that, since I know there are plenty of exceptions to that, your character included. So we are in full agreement, Mal.

[Machiavelli]

Actually, I was just agreeing with Kaldaris that many silent loner types do go necromancy, but I never said that all necromancers are like that, since I know there are plenty of exceptions to that, your character included. So we are in full agreement, Mal.

No no no, we are not in full agreement! Certainly not, I entirely reject such an idea as being utterly preposterous and completely impossible!

*disagrees vociferously with great verve and vim*

[rustediron]

Not sure how helpful it is, but in NWN I knew a nercomancer on a server I played on who was anything but silent. She did nothing but talk all the time, and slept around, and played with the dead.

Necromancer? I think the word you are looking for is 'necrophile'.

[lordmaple]

Not sure how helpful it is, but in NWN I knew a nercomancer on a server I played on who was anything but silent. She did nothing but talk all the time, and slept around, and played with the dead.


I do agree with the specing for the schools though, being able to choose the two you are barred from, or at least changing it around would likely help mix up the magic some.

I played a necromancer who actually never animated any dead, because he found the practice disgusting, but used a lot of other abilities to "silence them". (Undeath to Death was a favorite).

He was also a *big fan* of terror spells, like Cause Fear and Scare. He also loved draining abilities, like Ray of Enfeeblement, Horrid Wilting, and Dirge. In short, he was an "interrogator of death".

Question:

In the Sundren Laws, does "Necromantic Arts" apply to "Undead and Undead Constructs", or is it referring merely to "any Necromantic Magic?".