0xp

[Wyvern76]

*puts hands up*
Now, now, don't jump on me just yet!

I've been told to RP and adventure in parties. I've been told that if I can't fight Gnolls, try Sheridan Hills or the Sewers.

Well, I like to go in parties. And if none of my mates are around and no fun chit chat RP is going on, I will most likely try to solo an area Gene can handle.

Well the problem is this.

Gene has friend a few levels higher than her, two maybe three. So any monsters that don't instant kill Gene, grant 0xp in a party. Gnolls, Orcs, ect.

Gene really is a weak build solo right now. No, I'm not whining or asking for chess. She's level six and can bearly solo Sheridan goblins sometimes. She often has to pack up and run out. She gets 0xp for these monsters too. 0xp for all the monsters in the Sewers which kick her butt. Gene can't solo the forest at all.


So Gene get's 0xp in a party, 0xp solo. Not really worth risking the 250xp respawn she pays multiple times a day when she dies fighting 0xp monsters.

Granted some give 4xp, but the majority give 0xp.

I understand that the 0xp is to encourage mighty warriors to seek more challenges... but in my case it's basiclly just crule.

On an other server even goblins would give my level 16 character 5xp. Not worth fighting for XP or anything but still didn't make her party or anyone get 0xp.

Partying is really discouraged on this server if folks a few levels higher make everyone get 0xp.

Perhaps the XP could stay at 4xp for a while before going to zero for the level 10+ fighting goblins? Not like anyone would delibrately grind 1000 goblins to get enought xp to level.

Maybe this is a suggestion, but I really just am thinking of it as a sharing of my thoughts than a demand on the wonderful staff.

[GodBeastX]

You should read the thread on the experience system. It might help your understand.

Experience is the way it is today because of naughty players. They ruin it for good players. I personally would love to get huge amounts of exp per kill and level on my own terms, but people can't handle that. They want to be level 20 before they RP and stuff like that.

Basically, experience is figured by the highest level in your party. Why? So people don't power level each other (Trust me, people try to). If you have 3 or more people in your party, you gain 30% more experience a kill. So if a level 10 is in the party with level 7's, you get experience as if the party was level 10.

Now, if you have people 5 levels less than the highest member, it adds 2 levels per level 5 or more apart. So level 4 with a level 10 is a level 14 party for experience gain (Might change that to 8 levels). Then if you have over 5 people, it adds 2 levels for person over 5 (6 people makes a level 10 party, level 12). This is so people don't get in groups of 10 and just walk all over dungeons and expect uber experience. This might be modified too.

Now, the experience gained takes your level compared to the CR of the monster and rewards as follows.

Your Level - CR =
-4 or less: 0xp
-3 = 4
-2 = 8
-1 = 12
0 = 20xp
1 = 36xp
...
5 or more = 100xp or something.

Basically, getting in a party and killing something higher level than you can yield up to 130 exp a kill. And people do this alot. (100 + 30% gain).

So if you're in a party, and killing goblins gives zilch, try going somewhere tougher. The idea is risk == reward for killing. If killing goblins isn't risky, why would you gain any skill fighting them?

[Wyvern76]

Yes, I just found the Xp explaination.
And thank you GodBeast for explaining it even more for us.

I don't want to power level. I don't want to be level 20 this month or ever maybe. Heck I honestly think level +15 is imbalanced on PWs. I just want to get some experience for the monsters that are killing me. Trust me it's not a walk in the park! And like I said getting zero XP because I'm in a party feels like punishment to.

I thought having the xp bottom out at 4xp longer before 0xp, would at least be something and not a slap in the face for my weak character.

To me when I get 0xp for something, it's like the Server telling me not to do that and I'm doing something wrong. How do you think I feel when either in a party or solo; I die and was getting 0xp from those monsters!

[Rhifox]

What you do is get in a group with the power characters of your level (1 level either below or above you, maybe up to 2 levels above you) and go to very difficult places. Then you stand back and leech exp. This might sound wrong, but for some character classes, leeching exp is all they can do for the first 10 levels. For me, when I was in my level 6 through 9, I simply hung on to a couple of parties around my level going into the Ogre caves. The ogres were red or purple to me, but as long as you don't get any aggro or are able to drop aggro for the strong people to pick it up, you can easily get quick exp.

Parties are the way to get exp. If you aren't getting exp in a party, that's because your party is fighting things too easy. Remember, just because a mob is hard for you solo, doesn't mean it's hard for your group. And with the right characters in a group, you won't have to do anything, they can pretty much carry you on their backs.


As far as Sharahan Hills go, a few tips: If you are a caster, get Protection from Arrows. Seriously. Hell, even if you're a non-caster, if you have Use Magic Item, get scrolls of it. Arrows are the single biggest damage output that the goblins can put out. If you can get at least 20 AC from buffs, and Protection from Arrows, then they won't be able to really touch you. It'll take you a long while to kill them, but they won't be able to kill you.

If you are a high-dex character, get a short or longbow. Then kill the archer and boltboy before attacking the defender. Just let the defender hit you while you shoot at the archer and boltboy. The defender only has a +3 attack bonus, so even though it'll be getting lots of attacks of opportunity on you, it won't be able to hit you as long as you have decently high AC. And as soon as the archers/boltboy are dead, you won't have to worry about arrows anymore, which are, again, the highest damage output the goblins put out.



And one last thing to remember: If exp from grinding isn't coming fast enough, then stop doing. Just stick around the RP areas and RP. Personally, I'm getting all of my exp from RP now rather than bothering with grinding. It's slower than getting a group and pounding it out, but much more enjoyable.

[Baelas]

What you do is get in a group with the power characters of your level (1 level either below or above you, maybe up to 2 levels above you) and go to very difficult places. Then you stand back and leech exp.

While I'm not having any problems myself, the fact that a suggestion like this comes up tells me there's something slightly off with the rules.

I realise it's incredibly hard to balance experience for a game like NWN due to the massive differences in power between characters, but is it really necessary to balance it according to the abilities of the powergamers?

[Saulus]

The experience system isn't going to change if that's what you're getting at and if this turns into another discussion about changing it this won't last long.

[Rhifox]

While I'm not having any problems myself, the fact that a suggestion like this comes up tells me there's something slightly off with the rules.

I realise it's incredibly hard to balance experience for a game like NWN due to the massive differences in power between characters, but is it really necessary to balance it according to the abilities of the powergamers?

It's not balancing according to powergamers. It's the way that DnD's incredibly flawed class balance works. Casters are classes that start off incredibly badly compared to fighters, and don't become powerful until higher levels. Leeching exp is necessary for them at low levels due to the way the DnD magic system works. Fighters on the other hand start incredibly powerful, but then get weaker in comparison to wizards at higher levels.

At lower levels, most casters are simply buff machines. It's not teaming up with a powergamer, it's simply teaming up with classes that are more fit for combat at that period of time.

[Wyvern76]

Are people even reading what I'm saying. I'm not asking for more XP so I can level to godhood. I'm saying that I can't survive monsters that are "so easy" as they grant 0xp. Either in parties with monsters that kill me in one bad round or soloing the easiest monsters on the server, which still kill me.



The staff must hate me. All my posts get locked...
*runs to hide*

[Krya Flacongrace]

Barkskin, Protection form Arrows and Healing Pots....

Never leave home without them

[Rhifox]

When you're in parties, just stay away from the monsters. Stay in the back, and try not to get aggro. The monsters that can kill you in one round can only kill you in one round if they decide to attack you.

And again, if you really can't get exp from grinding, then just concentrate on RPing.


I've read what you've said, but you don't seem to have read my post, where I gave out plenty of advice on how to advance as a weaker class. No one hates you, it's just that while exp gaining can seem rough, there are plenty of ways around it, which don't require changing the system.

[Saulus]

To this day I still laugh when I'm on the DM client and watch people run into the heart of the Necropolis, and no one casts death ward. They shortly all die.

I'm sure there's a number of frustrated people going "They are too hard! It's unbalanced!" The truth of the matter is dungeons on Sundren can be hard, thankfully we don't have heavy XP deductions, hell you can't even lose a level. So yes, creatures will be tough, yes you'll need a good party to do so.

There are some gaps in the level range for dungeons right now, but dungeons take a long time to make... rest assured we have more than a few on the drawing board for upcoming updates.

[Rhifox]

To this day I still laugh when I'm on the DM client and watch people run into the heart of the Necropolis, and no one casts death ward. They shortly all die.

What mobs cast death magic? The only thing I've ever seen from them is Vampiric Touch, but no instant death moves. Unless Death Wards protects against Fear as well?

[Blue_Wyrm]

Quite frankly, I am fully behind Rhifox on this one. As Roger the only way I could get some reasonnable XP from level 5 to 8 was to hang at the back of some Necropolis group and leech XP, because I take aeons to take down anything with lots of HP or immunity to sneak attack (I hit for 4-10 where most combat-capable warriors go for 15-20 at my level, Dex fighter does that to you).

Being in a party tends to net me -more- xp much more quickly, not even mentionning that it's just plain funnier to RP around with people than go grind by yourself in some dark dungeon corner. DMs also seem to like putting up situations/traps/quests for small groups wandering in dungeons, well it happened to me several times at least. Overall I don't think the XP system and monster difficulty encourages soloing.

[Aux]

Are people even reading what I'm saying. I'm not asking for more XP so I can level to godhood. I'm saying that I can't survive monsters that are "so easy" as they grant 0xp. Either in parties with monsters that kill me in one bad round or soloing the easiest monsters on the server, which still kill me.



The staff must hate me. All my posts get locked...
*runs to hide*

I have the same problem, and my char isnt low level... yes it means hanging at the back as has been said... and yes it can be frustrating when you want to get involved. But the interaction with pc's and dm's (well some of them) can be rewarding.

If you dont like it, go play WoW.. cos DnD is rubbish and WoW is much better in so many ways apparently

[undeadsteak]

Heh. Try to get some RP XP from hanging around in the crossroads, I doubt the high levels'll be leveling up any further for now, if you're trying to catch up to them. Atleast, not rapidly quick, as they around 4xp per a kill.