Detect Good/Evil Discussion

[Vichtor]

Just to throw a bit more to the melting pot... the church of Helm has clerics of all lawful alignments, yet also has paladins. 'I' want to be there when one of their paladins casts Detect Evil on the congregation.. heh..
I think Detect Good/Evil should be used as and when a character can and wants to, surely then the character will rp it in a suitable way .
I see the alignment rating as a way of measuring someones morals and 'soul'... much like a barometer, doesnt have to be rp'ed about in a black/white "OMFG You are evils stay back cos i is teh paladin, they evil evryone they evil!" way.

I may have to pull a Pally out of the closet and dust him off if this keeps up. If I saw someone that had the "Red glow of evil" about them, I'd treat them like most people treat odd strangers making suggestions in dangerous places (You know...like a party in a dungeon):

"I'd take your word at face value if I could be certain it was not influenced by your more base impulses. As is, I will consider what you have said."

As opposed to someone who has the goodie-goodie glow:

"You bring a valid point, perhaps we should consider it in our plans."

Basically saying the same thing to both people...but the tone and emotion behind it is as different as day and night.

[undeadsteak]

Jesus says your evil for not stopping, Jesus wins.

I quote the story of the Good Samaritan.

I'd give evil points if some guy was bleeding and asked for help "Heeelp... Mee..." and you just look at him and walk by uncaring.

You can still walk by and not help him, being neutral... Why should your character care for a stranger? They might themselves get killed for helping the person, as the person who beat the shit out of the guy screaming for help might now just come to you for helping mr. screams for help.

[Scourn]

Jesus says your evil for not stopping, Jesus wins.

I quote the story of the Good Samaritan.

I'd give evil points if some guy was bleeding and asked for help "Heeelp... Mee..." and you just look at him and walk by uncaring.

If they asked and your neutral, id say you should atleast use a med kit or cast a healing spell to atleast get them on their feet. If they lay there not asking for help, then really thered be nothing wrong OR right about just walking past them, thus makeing you neutral.

[undeadsteak]

Help them and risk getting hunted by the guy attempting to kill him? I'd say a neutral char would care more about his own life then some stranger...

[GodBeastX]

Help them and risk getting hunted by the guy attempting to kill him? I'd say a neutral char would care more about his own life then some stranger...

Hmmm, caring about yourself and nobody else. Sounds evil.

I stand by my statement, it's evil. And guess what! I get to decide what's evil and what's good ^_^ MWAHAHAH!

Inaction is not neutral. An action is only neutral if it has no bearing on good or evil. Leaving people to die for no reason is evil. Period. If the guy on the ground is vile and destructive and would kill people if ressed, you put him out of his misery as a paladin, nobody should leave someone to die. In the Good Samaritan story, the guy was beaten to where he cant talk. So if he can't talk it's okay to leave him? Makes no sense

[Spider_kiss]

watch the final episode of Sienfeld.. hilarious example of apathy as evil. heheh

[Vichtor]

All that is necessary for Evil to triumph is that Good men do nothing.

[Eternal Serf]

I'm enjoying how this conversation is going, its also interesting how this is affecting how people relate on the server. A wee bit of tension happening, which I think aids in roleplay. I have jumped on a few times in the past few days and just wandered around talking to folks about good and evil...the dark advent...sorcerors...and the like and its very entertaining to see how everyone is reacting to things.

Its also entertaining to see how folks interpret 'neutral'. Heck its tough enough to sometimes figure good and evil, but what exactly is neutral? Is it 'Swiss' Style neutrality? Is it 'I don't care if it doesn't affect me'? Is it totally ignoring everyone else?
Is it chance (the flip of a coin)?

I know how I look at neutral; the balance between good and evil. Evil must be balanced by good, just as good must sometimes be slowed before it becomes evil. Its all pretty difficult and hazy to just write down or quantify, but I must say its interesting to see what others think of it.

looking forward to seeing you online..hehhehe

[Drancor]

I'd have to disagree with that quote. Being inactive towards somethings can be just as evil as doing the action yourself. If your aid can save a person, a village or the world and you refuse to assist is that not just as evil?

"Give me your gold or I'll kill this innocent hostage." Isn't that a simple inaction that can get someone killed? Although his god may be the god of justice or battle, he is still supposed to be the epitomy of all that is good and lawful no matter who he worships.

There was a dragon mag, from back in the 80s during PnP virsion that brought up the question about how good a paladin was. The put the question to a few DMs and most came up with the idea that a paladan is LG this we all know but his actions in being LG are tied to his church and god. Case in point, the paladin leads a raid on a band of maruding orcs. They come to the camp and destory the evil orcs. The question was what would the Paladin do with the children and the women at the orc camp. First off, his church has deamed these EVIL and must be destoryed for thier actions. So does he loose his powers for following his orders from his lord :LG or does he without question kill the children and the women of the orc camp because orc's are inherently evil. And if he does this, does his god strip him of his paladin abilites? guess its a judgment call by what his god stands for. The other case was in war. Two countries go to war against each other, there is a chance you would have paladin vrs. paladin, iam sure the rules of knighthood apply, To grant mercy and so on. But many questions can be brought up IMO to how to deal with this situation.

[Drancor]

I'm enjoying how this conversation is going, its also interesting how this is affecting how people relate on the server. A wee bit of tension happening, which I think aids in roleplay. I have jumped on a few times in the past few days and just wandered around talking to folks about good and evil...the dark advent...sorcerors...and the like and its very entertaining to see how everyone is reacting to things.

Its also entertaining to see how folks interpret 'neutral'. Heck its tough enough to sometimes figure good and evil, but what exactly is neutral? Is it 'Swiss' Style neutrality? Is it 'I don't care if it doesn't affect me'? Is it totally ignoring everyone else?
Is it chance (the flip of a coin)?

I know how I look at neutral; the balance between good and evil. Evil must be balanced by good, just as good must sometimes be slowed before it becomes evil. Its all pretty difficult and hazy to just write down or quantify, but I must say its interesting to see what others think of it.

looking forward to seeing you online..hehhehe

I agree i think that playing TRUE neutral is probley the hardest, my own opionon of what a true neutral charcter would be a defense lawyer. He defends people he knows are guilty and gives them the best defense he can because of the LAW good or bad inncoent or evil he defends them to the best of thier ability. (within reason) ya, it sounds funny and you would say because he following the LAW but consider the law, the forrest of the druid. Its what he belives in and has sworn to protect. He will do anything to protect his forest and so on. Again this is just me thinkin out loud.

[The Fantasian]

Just my opinion but I would think that any form of genocide, as in killing the unarmed, non-combatant women and children would be outright evil. If someone is inherently evil, wouldn't it be "good" to make them see the light and change their actions and attitudes?

[GodBeastX]

There was a dragon mag, from back in the 80s during PnP virsion that brought up the question about how good a paladin was. The put the question to a few DMs and most came up with the idea that a paladan is LG this we all know but his actions in being LG are tied to his church and god. Case in point, the paladin leads a raid on a band of maruding orcs. They come to the camp and destory the evil orcs. The question was what would the Paladin do with the children and the women at the orc camp. First off, his church has deamed these EVIL and must be destoryed for thier actions. So does he loose his powers for following his orders from his lord :LG or does he without question kill the children and the women of the orc camp because orc's are inherently evil. And if he does this, does his god strip him of his paladin abilites? guess its a judgment call by what his god stands for. The other case was in war. Two countries go to war against each other, there is a chance you would have paladin vrs. paladin, iam sure the rules of knighthood apply, To grant mercy and so on. But many questions can be brought up IMO to how to deal with this situation.

Since I am god here <_< >_> (Waits for people to contest, sees none, so continues) I deem that if a paladin is raiding an orc camp and kills the men, then he is fine. If the women fight, then he must kill the women and children. Because without the women, the children would die anyway, and leaving them to die is merciless. However, there might be a quest for atonement after ^_^

I think if 2 paladins know each other are paladins, then they should fight and concede. I don't think a paladin should ever kill another paladin. In fact, from player's handbook, even across faiths, paladins view each other as brothers.

[Drancor]

Since I am god here <_< >_> (Waits for people to contest, sees none, so continues) I deem that if a paladin is raiding an orc camp and kills the men, then he is fine. If the women fight, then he must kill the women and children. Because without the women, the children would die anyway, and leaving them to die is merciless. However, there might be a quest for atonement after ^_^

I think if 2 paladins know each other are paladins, then they should fight and concede. I don't think a paladin should ever kill another paladin. In fact, from player's handbook, even across faiths, paladins view each other as brothers.

Oh great and mystical god hahaha i think your right, i remember reading a book awhile ago dealing with a paladin that was booted out of thier order because they did not follow the orders of the head cleric of the church. But, the did not loose thier paladin abilites, i think that the paladins god (the granter of his powers) deemed his actions true and just even if he was kicked out of order by the preist. Role playing a Paladin can be a bitch but if its done right it is also some of the most fun ive had, (as long as the dms arnt against ya LOL that can be a pain)