Safe Zone Resting Only?

[GodBeastX]

Obsidian balanced these classes for their campaign not Persistant worlds. In their campaigns everyone can rest when they want. I dont see why a weapon master gets to do over a 100 points with a crit, but a mage is forced to use his little crossbow for 10 if they get lucky. As for wands, they are EXTREMELY expensive to make and not even an option with Sundrens economy.

That's it exactly, Tass. And when a WM has a wizard stack 12 AC on top of whatever armor he/she is wearing. The two just walk through dungeons as if it wasn't there. Not to mention use magic device is a joke now. So they could get scrolls and buff the same way.

Basically the nerf is a nerf in that regard, yes. But in a way it's a buff as well. Improved Mage Armor has potential to give +8 AC or +2 AC, depending on who it's cast on or +12 AC or +3 AC respectfully. That's how we want it. We don't want people in all +1 gear, then getting super AC buffed for hours on end.

When I design the AB and AC of creatures, I think about what gear people have and if they will be buffed or what not, and how fast the creature should be taken out. For example, mages in dungeons tend to have lower AC (Like 17 or 18 on CR9 creature) and way less HP than creatures around it. If you have even +7 AB you are hitting 50/50 on first swing. With a fighter, at CR9 if you have less than 10AB I'm shocked. I'm sure most have 13 or 14 at that point. So missing a mage is kind of a hard thing to do. However, there's some creatures with AC 25 at CR 12, meant to be taken down slower in melee, BUT they will be easier to kill with certain spells. In fact, I have been looking at putting elemental strengths and weakness on monsters. Some already have them and they will be getting it tweaked. You might cast firebrand and do like crap for damage, but cast icestorm and watch things get laid to waste.

Then the AB of the creatures I try to balance, imagining the sort of gear someone will have more than what buffs they would have. So the buffs are actually going to always make a dungeon easier, because I can't assume everyone who comes in is buffed to hell. Considering that is it a wonder that someone coming up with 10+ more AC than the gear I imagined them having, would make things easy as cake?

The idea is we don't want dungeon crawling to become uber mindless where creatures don't put up any kind of fight. I can also see where you might have difficulty getting exp since that 25% bonus kicks in with 3 or more people. Which is why you likely see parties going out to gain experience. I watch people make over 1000 experience in a single run of some places because they had full parties.

Only thing that's making GBX cry right now is nobody is taking up the yoke of the healer classes. I was tempted to add healer based items to the game that may cost money, but end up cheaper in the long run than stacking potions and such. Heal Domain priests make dungeons runs SOOOOO easy. That's a role I played in NWN1 often. A wizard would cast invis on me and I would just walk around the battle healing people as needed, with cure moderate wounds that were just uncanny in power.

It's an ongoing balancing act, really. And as we watch people run these places and see where the difficulty lies and where it is cake, it only helps us reconsider things. I don't think anyone can say with a straight face "Oh, buffs were not potent in dungeons for our success". That's why we're altering them.

[Tassafina]

That's it exactly, Tass. And when a WM has a wizard stack 12 AC on top of whatever armor he/she is wearing. The two just walk through dungeons as if it wasn't there. Not to mention use magic device is a joke now. So they could get scrolls and buff the same way.

Basically the nerf is a nerf in that regard, yes. But in a way it's a buff as well. Improved Mage Armor has potential to give +8 AC or +2 AC, depending on who it's cast on or +12 AC or +3 AC respectfully. That's how we want it. We don't want people in all +1 gear, then getting super AC buffed for hours on end.

When I design the AB and AC of creatures, I think about what gear people have and if they will be buffed or what not, and how fast the creature should be taken out. For example, mages in dungeons tend to have lower AC (Like 17 or 18 on CR9 creature) and way less HP than creatures around it. If you have even +7 AB you are hitting 50/50 on first swing. With a fighter, at CR9 if you have less than 10AB I'm shocked. I'm sure most have 13 or 14 at that point. So missing a mage is kind of a hard thing to do. However, there's some creatures with AC 25 at CR 12, meant to be taken down slower in melee, BUT they will be easier to kill with certain spells. In fact, I have been looking at putting elemental strengths and weakness on monsters. Some already have them and they will be getting it tweaked. You might cast firebrand and do like crap for damage, but cast icestorm and watch things get laid to waste.

Then the AB of the creatures I try to balance, imagining the sort of gear someone will have more than what buffs they would have. So the buffs are actually going to always make a dungeon easier, because I can't assume everyone who comes in is buffed to hell. Considering that is it a wonder that someone coming up with 10+ more AC than the gear I imagined them having, would make things easy as cake?

The idea is we don't want dungeon crawling to become uber mindless where creatures don't put up any kind of fight. I can also see where you might have difficulty getting exp since that 25% bonus kicks in with 3 or more people. Which is why you likely see parties going out to gain experience. I watch people make over 1000 experience in a single run of some places because they had full parties.

Only thing that's making GBX cry right now is nobody is taking up the yoke of the healer classes. I was tempted to add healer based items to the game that may cost money, but end up cheaper in the long run than stacking potions and such. Heal Domain priests make dungeons runs SOOOOO easy. That's a role I played in NWN1 often. A wizard would cast invis on me and I would just walk around the battle healing people as needed, with cure moderate wounds that were just uncanny in power.

It's an ongoing balancing act, really. And as we watch people run these places and see where the difficulty lies and where it is cake, it only helps us reconsider things. I don't think anyone can say with a straight face "Oh, buffs were not potent in dungeons for our success". That's why we're altering them.

So basically just making the spells like NWN1? That wont be too bad. People need to realize that yes Eldritch Knights are tough but you have sacrifices for being that way. I consider my character more of a support character than someone that solo's, kind of like the tank class in mmorpg's, I am a wizard with a sword...I have terrible ab compared to a fighter, only three attacks at level 20. Virtually no attack spells, only a few stilled for emergancies. Yes they might be able to surrive alone but it would be no fun cause it would be mindless grinding.

[GodBeastX]

So basically just making the spells like NWN1? That wont be too bad. People need to realize that yes Eldritch Knights are tough but you have sacrifices for being that way. I consider my character more of a support character than someone that solo's, kind of like the tank class in mmorpg's, I am a wizard with a sword...I have terrible ab compared to a fighter, only three attacks at level 20. Virtually no attack spells, only a few stilled for emergancies. Yes they might be able to surrive alone but it would be no fun cause it would be mindless grinding.

Where as some people make Sorc/Eldritch/Paladins, get level 8 spells, and saves like no other. Pretty much each other classes alive if correct spells are chosen.

Just because you are a class doesn't mean your the reason we're changing things. You can build paladins many different ways. One way makes you unhittable, another way makes you horribly hard to defend against. Really depends. I for one build for RP first, then grinding second. Others might build the opposite way.

[Ithildin]

Where as some people make Sorc/Eldritch/Paladins, get level 8 spells, and saves like no other. Pretty much each other classes alive if correct spells are chosen.

Just because you are a class doesn't mean your the reason we're changing things. You can build paladins many different ways. One way makes you unhittable, another way makes you horribly hard to defend against. Really depends. I for one build for RP first, then grinding second. Others might build the opposite way.

So its sorc/paladin combo thats making the night so over powered? Guess thats why Tass and I couldn't figure out how knight was so much worse then all other combos She and I only looked at wizard/fighter/knight combo

[Kendaric]

So its sorc/paladin combo thats making the night so over powered? Guess thats why Tass and I couldn't figure out how knight was so much worse then all other combos She and I only looked at wizard/fighter/knight combo

That's why many servers disallow the paladin/sorceror combo... it was pretty much overpowered even in NWN1 without the eldritch knight added in (it's not the only extreme power-build combination of course).
Unless we're going to have multiclass restrictions of any kind (and I doubt many people would like to have that), making resting more difficult and/or carefully balancing spells are the only viable options IMO.
Before all mages cry havoc now, you have a very versatile class (at least as a wizard) that has a lot of options available aside from the usual attack spells and yes, there's also the crossbow/sling which can be a viable option when travelling with a group.

[undeadsteak]

So now low level wizards are screwed and warlocks are uber? Great...When I run out of spells (like in 2 minutes) I'll just throw some rocks and clever remarks in battle. While the clerics and warlocks destroy the scenery.

Warlocks are uber? And this will affect clerics too... First off, Warlocks cant throw spells that damage very highly. Second off, wizards can still use ranged weapons... And third, if you havent noticed, the Temple of Helm has started an inquisition against Warlocks. Most of them are going to be wiped out or atleast have a very hard life. And once you level up, your not going to be running out of spells so quickly...

[Tassafina]

So its sorc/paladin combo thats making the night so over powered? Guess thats why Tass and I couldn't figure out how knight was so much worse then all other combos She and I only looked at wizard/fighter/knight combo

Hehe yeah...course I must be the odd one outs..don't even have UMD. Hope to be a great crafter so saving all my extra points for that.