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  • Heart Warder (non-good) / Seductress

    I was thinking it would be nice to have non-good (evil?) version of the Heart Warder much like the Black Guard is to the Paladin.


    • “Lips of the temptress” – Mind control like the Vampire Char based
    • “Courage / False confidence / Inspiration” - provides either +/- to skills or AB/Dam like a low-level Bard.
    • “Rage” – would force anyone under “Lips of the temptress” in a rage if anyone causes harm to the Seductress (and if possible cause them to attack).
    • “Allure” - +1 Char every 3 or 5 levels



    Basically this Class would be a support class with flavor. Was looking for a class that would be the “woman behind the man” / "A scorned heart".



    Thoughts / Suggestions?
    Elandra: A former Red Blade, now roams the wilderness with the Lone wolf as her guide
    Alexandra: Ever faithful (just shy of a Zealot)
    Yodglum: May Kossuth's flame light your way and burn those in it!
    Ash: Dusty old miner of still looking for the "mother load" on Exigo's stag

    Shaving kittens: not an official sport, but fun just the same

  • #2
    My 2 cents:

    Heartwarder is the specialty priest of Sune, opening it up to other gods or changing it's alignment would go against established lore, and it would open up a can of worms about the other deity locked classes.
    My to-be toon:
    Shafiq Al-Mawt: Zakharan myrkulite.

    My tomb of old toons:
    Cruven Schlachten - Blood Reaver of Garagos, Blackwood Company Elite, Hellstrom Head of Security
    Marcus Waynard- Horned Harbinger, fear his best bud Frank!... and Jim, Bob, Sue, and Jane...
    Davlamin Frostfoot - Frosty Snowflake, the Frozen Fist of Auril, sworn enemy of the Second Wind fire pit.


    Click here to see the full image of my avatar, by Algido.

    Comment


    • #3
      I concur with Asura. While I appreciate sundren itself isn't strictly canon, Opening up speciality priests as their own prestige class is a bit different to let's say getting rid of the racial requirement on Stalwart defender.
      Originally posted by roguethree
      If I had my way, clerics would have spell failure and a d6 hit die. And Favored Souls wouldn't exist.

      Comment


      • #4
        I referenced Heart Warder just to set the mood / provide similarities. The class does not have to be related to a given Deity.

        Does the Heart Warder class get spells? If so I was not thinking of this class getting any divine intervention.
        Last edited by Cornuto; 04-14-2016, 08:47 PM.
        Elandra: A former Red Blade, now roams the wilderness with the Lone wolf as her guide
        Alexandra: Ever faithful (just shy of a Zealot)
        Yodglum: May Kossuth's flame light your way and burn those in it!
        Ash: Dusty old miner of still looking for the "mother load" on Exigo's stag

        Shaving kittens: not an official sport, but fun just the same

        Comment


        • #5
          There is another server that does allow Heartwarder without restrictions on being good or deity but now has zero population.

          Comment


          • #6
            What you've proposed here could be ably accomplished by role playing a bard or sorcerer toward this theme.

            So if anyone's looking to play a Seductress, just send me a PM, and I'll give you some ... uh ... tips.

            Comment


            • #7
              I actually think this is a fantastic idea, and it is something I would have loved to have on my sorceress. Sune vs Auril shares many thematic similarities (though no literal connection in 3.5, just in 4E) to the Seelie vs. QoAaD, so Heartwarder always struck me as a fey themed sorcerer PrC. Some of its abilities literally reference the Seelie on Sundren. It always struck me that there should be an Unseelie option.

              From a general content efficiency perspective, having a PrC that only works for one deity isn't the best thing in the world. Far better to have content that, while still being niche, facilitates more than one kind of character. To put it another way, I see only benefits and no harms of allowing this PrC.

              TL;DR: Heartwarder is a fey themed PrC. Open it up to both Seelie and Unseelie themed characters.

              EDIT: Lotus got his post in before I read it. Yeah, of course people could do this, and I did do this on Sundren the Old. Heartwarder gives a ridiculous mechanical advantage to any Sorceress going for a DC build, though, and it doesn't make sense from a mechanical point of view to only give this to one very specific kind of character.
              WWW•REKOV•COM

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              • #8
                I can see the fertility pond being busy post-wipe.
                Aesa Volsung - Uthgardt Warrior

                Formerly
                Gabrielle Atkinson - Mage Priest of Torm
                Anasath Zesiro - Mulhorandi Morninglord
                Kyoko - Tiefling Diviner
                Yashedeus - Cyrist Warlock
                Aramil - Nutter

                GMT -8

                Comment


                • #9
                  If I knew more details on the Heartwarder PrC, then I could provide more here. The problem with a bard/soc is that you cannot direct an effect on a single individual (Lips of the temptress). My thoughts were for the Seductress to ensnare other PrCs like a vampire does but without the gore/blood. To many IC variations to present here and while yes one can "say they are" but without the mechanics then it is purely up other players.

                  Clive ensnared El when she did not want to be and could not Alex when she was open to it. It is always good to have mechanics to back up you claims (play your Charterer Sheet?).
                  Elandra: A former Red Blade, now roams the wilderness with the Lone wolf as her guide
                  Alexandra: Ever faithful (just shy of a Zealot)
                  Yodglum: May Kossuth's flame light your way and burn those in it!
                  Ash: Dusty old miner of still looking for the "mother load" on Exigo's stag

                  Shaving kittens: not an official sport, but fun just the same

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well, I will say that Sundren makes it possible to play an Enchantment focused Sorceress, which is what I did with Leikny. Without the wiki there is no way I am going to remember the names of the spells, but Sundren has enough custom ones, including that level 8 Save or Die enchantment spell that make it possible.

                    I suppose you're looking for something less blunt than Dominate, yes Nezz?
                    WWW•REKOV•COM

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rekov View Post
                      I suppose you're looking for something less blunt than Dominate, yes Nezz?
                      Actually me and my better half were thinking about a joint character concept. One a brutish fighter then other a controlling woman (Seductress or shadowy witch).

                      We all have ones pulling our strings or perhaps we are pulling theirs (). This concept PrC was to put mechanics around that with a bit of sensuality or illusion there of.

                      "Lips or rapture" (?) was to provide aid. "Lips of the temptress" is to provide control.
                      Elandra: A former Red Blade, now roams the wilderness with the Lone wolf as her guide
                      Alexandra: Ever faithful (just shy of a Zealot)
                      Yodglum: May Kossuth's flame light your way and burn those in it!
                      Ash: Dusty old miner of still looking for the "mother load" on Exigo's stag

                      Shaving kittens: not an official sport, but fun just the same

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rekov View Post
                        From a general content efficiency perspective, having a PrC that only works for one deity isn't the best thing in the world. Far better to have content that, while still being niche, facilitates more than one kind of character. To put it another way, I see only benefits and no harms of allowing this PrC.
                        I have to disagree with this, specialty priests are basically elite versions of a god's clerics and contain heavy amounts of lore associated with them. The gods are one of the most important parts of Forgotten Realms lore and to strip them of the classes specifically designed to be their own unique champions is lore shattering in my opinion.
                        My to-be toon:
                        Shafiq Al-Mawt: Zakharan myrkulite.

                        My tomb of old toons:
                        Cruven Schlachten - Blood Reaver of Garagos, Blackwood Company Elite, Hellstrom Head of Security
                        Marcus Waynard- Horned Harbinger, fear his best bud Frank!... and Jim, Bob, Sue, and Jane...
                        Davlamin Frostfoot - Frosty Snowflake, the Frozen Fist of Auril, sworn enemy of the Second Wind fire pit.


                        Click here to see the full image of my avatar, by Algido.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I feel like god-gifted classes were created to help create a server culture among the players that fits them in with what is popular in Sundren. So the Triad, Bane, Myrkul, Sune, Lathander, etc. These god's prestige classes set those character's apart and help give some direction for players that guides them into Sundren culture without forcing it.

                          It indeed helps the atmosphere of of a server when players are gently guided into roles that fit a theme and helps with immersion. If these god-classes were unlocked to anyone I feel like it would be more damaging to Sundren's feel then good.

                          I can see the argument for not gating power behind prestige classes/factions, that's exactly what the staff are trying to avoid in this iteration as I understand it. But with all the tweaks base classes have received I feel like prestige have become more about that flavor then about any power. Which I personally appreciate contributing to the lore/culture of the server then allowing for more variations on power builds.
                          Aesa Volsung - Uthgardt Warrior

                          Formerly
                          Gabrielle Atkinson - Mage Priest of Torm
                          Anasath Zesiro - Mulhorandi Morninglord
                          Kyoko - Tiefling Diviner
                          Yashedeus - Cyrist Warlock
                          Aramil - Nutter

                          GMT -8

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Heartwarder

                            Sune Firehair encourages beauty, passion, and love wherever they may be found. Heartwarders are aesthetes and hedonists who actively seek out pleasure and beauty in all things and who nurture the creation of beautiful objects. Most heartwarders are clerics, cleric/bards, cleric/rogues, or cleric/sorcerers, although other class combinations, particularly those including enchanter, are not unknown. Heartwarders are typically found in large cities in the company of the cultural elite. Most are active patrons of the arts, and all play the role of matchmaker for persons in all levels of society. Many are employed as artists, crafters, performers, or instructors. Those who teach instruct in such varied subjects as art, choral music, cosmetics, dance, deportment, etiquette, fashion, handiwork, instrumental music, and manners. A few travel the world to promote beauty and love, and adventure in the manner of Sunite clerics.

                            Hit Die: d4.

                            REQUIREMENTS: To qualify to become a heartwarder, a character must fulfill the following criteria.

                            Alignment: Chaotic good.

                            Base Save Bonus: Ref +2. Skills: Bluff 3 ranks, Diplomacy 6 ranks, Speak Language (Sylvan).

                            Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Spell Focus (Enchantment), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (whip).

                            Spells: Ability to cast 3rd-level spells. Patron: Sune.

                            CLASS SKILLS:

                            The class skills of a heartwarder (and the key ability for each skill) are Animal Empathy (Cha), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Innuendo (Wis), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). See Chapter 4 of the Player’s Handbook for skill descriptions.
                            Skill Points at Each Level:2 + Int modifier.

                            CLASS FEATURES:

                            The following are class features of the heartwarder prestige class.
                            Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A heartwarder gains no weapon or armor proficiencies.

                            Spells per Day/Spells Known: At each heartwarder level, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to which she belonged before adding the prestige class level. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of turning or destroying undead, metamagic or item creation feats, and so on). If the character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a heartwarder, the player must decide to which class to add each heartwarder level for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

                            Charisma Increase (Ex): As the heartwarder gains levels in this prestige class, she becomes increasingly more persuasive and attractive. At level 1 she gains a +1 inherent bonus to her Charisma score, and every other heartwarder level after that this bonus increases by +1 to a maximum of +5 inherent bonus at level 9.

                            Heart of Passion (Ex): At 2nd level, a heartwarder evinces such passionate belief in whatever she does or says that she can sway the thoughts of the most rigid critic. This ability translates into a +2 bonus on all Charisma-based skill checks.

                            Lips of Rapture (Su): At 4th level, a heartwarder’s kiss confers a state of bliss upon its recipient, conferring a +2 morale bonus on attacks, weapon damage, checks, and saves. Moreover, it temporarily suspends the effects of exhaustion, fatigue, and nausea. An enraptured recipient receives a +2 saving throw bonus against enchantment spells and effects. This ability lasts 5 rounds, and can be used a number of times per day equal to her Charisma bonus. The one downside to a heartwarder’s kiss is that it also has the effect of a daze spell upon the recipient (the normal saving throw applies) as if cast by a sorcerer of heartwarder’s caster level.

                            Voice of a Siren (Su): At 6th level, a heartwarder’s voice is so enticing that she weakens the ability of opponents to resist her spells. She gains the Spell Focus (Enchantment) and Spell Penetration feats, but they only apply to spells with a verbal component (and are not altered with the Silent Spell feat).

                            Tears of Evergold (Su): At 8th level, as a fullround action, a heartwarder can cry tears drawn from Evergold, a sacred pool that enhances beauty that Sune shares with the elven goddess Hanali Celanil. If these tears are collected, they are equivalent to the effects of a potion of love and serve the Sunite faith as holy water. A heartwarder can use this ability once per tenday, and while it does not cost her any gold to do so, calling upon the power of the pool requires her to spend 6 XP, just as if she had made the potion with the Brew Potion feat.

                            Fey Metamorphosis: At 10th level, a heartwarder is so attuned to the forces of natural beauty that she transcends mortal definitions of beauty. Her type changes to “fey,” which means, among other things, that she is no longer affected by spells that specifically target humanoids, such as charm person.
                            GMT -9

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                            • #15
                              As you can see above, the abilities of the Heartwarder are based on the domains and dogma of Sune. There just isn’t an evil god that has the same portfolio. The closes I could find to Sune that was evil was Malcanthet, the Succubus Queen.

                              I couldn’t find anything in a source manual about Malcanthet. After reading about her (only on Wiki); I think it would be hard to base a class on her dogma because that would get into a very slippery slope on consent and what not. But, that being said, Malcanthet does have a cult of followers that do gain powers similar to the succubus and it does say that they can assume the form of a succubus for a limited amount of time.

                              I don’t think that there should be an “evil” heartwarder because it isn’t fair that CHA bonus are only given to a few classes. I also don’t agree with a class that allows any character to enslave someone as an ability that has no set bases for RP. That is to say, if a class like this gets made, there should be guidelines to follow and lore the player must adhere to so that this doesn’t turn into something sketchy. That being said, I say rock on if this is something the DM’s want to do.
                              Last edited by Fuzziebunny; 04-13-2016, 11:27 PM.
                              GMT -9

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