Disarm

[OnyxTigress]

Given the fact that this feat is known to be heavily bugged and has the potential to destroy the weapons of others, I'd like to suggest that the feat itself either be removed or there be a rule that it shouldn't be used in pvp.

I know that it's been known of the potential to destroy weapons for a while now, but it still causes enough grief to be a problem.

[Lothoir]

But Peridan taught Jonathon that move! Killing disarm is like killing Peridan. Again.

spoiler alert: Peridan dies. And if OnyxTigress has her way, again.

[Valhalla]

Given the fact that the disarm attempt can be made essentially an automatic success with clever potion use beforehand, and the likelihood of weapon loss (particularly in dungeon environments like Whurest, where I've personally seen multiple weapons destroyed by disarm) which can effectively cripple a character's ability to fight in that pvp at all, I whole-heartedly support this suggestion.

Disarm goes well beyond Knockdown, which merely removes a round from the losing player. Even if the weapon isn't destroyed, even the slightest bit of lag can make picking the weapon back up, finding it in your inventory, and re-equipping it all but impossible. Or it could be picked up by anyone in that combat, by accident or on purpose.

It's a really neat feat for PvE, against mobs. But used against players by mobs or other players, it's a recipe for hurt feelings.

[gamestarmike]

Taking the feat away only gives the twink ab/crit characters more power to always come out top in pvp
Disarm is the only way my character could ever hope to win against the power builds.

Tyranus' 2cents

[thaelis]

Onyx, you want to kill Peridan?! How can you suggest such a thing you heartless vile despicable two-faced....! *tirade continues for a while*

(On topic: I suspect getting rid of it would P*&% off more people than keeping it. People like their instant-win against boss/PvP feats)

[cmosier]

I thought staff already ruled on this? I could have sworn they suggested not to pick fights with people who can Disarm you.

For the record... I see nothing wrong with knocking a weapon from an opponents hand then picking it up and beating them with it. All's fair and all that.

[OnyxTigress]

For the record... I see nothing wrong with knocking a weapon from an opponents hand then picking it up and beating them with it. All's fair and all that.

This is not the reason why I am bringing up this suggestion. It's the fact that the weapon itself can poof into nothingness and be destroyed completely is why I bring it up.

And yes, staff has urged caution with the use of the feat. But I find that it's not enough, and it should either be ruled to not be used in pvp or be removed completely.

I find it would be better for everyone involved, and would lessen the hurt feelings that can happen in pvp.

[jarlexel]

I like it in pve a lot, in pvp I lost a total of four swords and one was a gift that can not be replaced, but in pvp when people have their weapons all buffed, removing it is a good tactic.

What I will do now on is have weapons just for pvp that I will not mind looseing

[Nyssis]

Taking the feat away only gives the twink ab/crit characters more power to always come out top in pvp
Disarm is the only way my character could ever hope to win against the power builds.

Disarm is an AB- and size-dependent roll, so someone powerbuilt for hitting and hitting hard with a two-hander will likely be able to defend against the attempt regardless.

[Lugwy]

As a person whose character has Disarm, I find it causes a lot more stress than benefit. Stress over giving the weapon back (or hoping you'll get the weapon back), or stress over the game eating the weapon from the world, then all the issue trying to get that weapon back, if at all.

I'd say to at least disable it.

[Doubtful]

I think in the past the staff have always expressed the opinion that its a valid feat in PvE, for bosses and what not we just make them undisarmable to reduce cheesage.

Its use in PvP/CvC is definitely contentious, personally I feel that given the well known and well documented issues with it you'd have to be a pretty scummy asshole to use it against another player, this goes double for improved disarm. However, I'm sure there are people out there who see it as a valid feat and something to be used legitimately to help win PvP.

I don't think it needs disabling and I'm not convinced we need yet more tedious rules about what people can and can't do. Instead I'd encourage etiquette and understanding between players; if you know something is buggy or will cause distress or upset oocly to other players then be a vaguely decernt human being and don't do it.

[OnyxTigress]

Despite it being well documented and having been buggy for its entire existence, it hasn't stopped people from using it in pvp. People claim they feel bad for using it, but that hasn't stopped them and likely won't stop them from using it in the future.

It'd really save a whole lot of headaches and trouble to just make a rule for it to not be used in pvp.

[Valhalla]

If the player etiquette should boil down to "don't use buggy feats on each other", why not just codify that?

I have a couple copies of my main weapon (it's a faction item!), so I'm not super effected either way, but when people are losing special DM loot, player-crafted items that had hours and hours and hours of gathering that went in to finding the gems and essences to craft, items that used to be sold and now aren't, or even just rare loot drop items, that seems to be reason enough to disallow the use of the feat in pvp to me!

E: And to keep this from seeming biased, one of the more painful examples of this disarm bug I can think of happened to a guy on the other side of a PvP from me. I wasn't the guy with disarm, but one of my party members had it and used it.

[Doubtful]

I doubt it'll save headaches and stress, it'll just get the staff involved a lot more as people wave screenshots and angst about, then whoever has been using it will claim "I didn't know" or "You're victimising me you fascist asshat, I fucking paid for this game so I can do what I want you soggy douche" or "Hey, I can still take it as a feat so I can still use it. If it was a problem you'd have removed it completely" or any other special butterfly excuse. Then there'll be the totes emosh moment where we have to threaten bans and all that crap, and people will leave because Sundrens staff are militant shits who hate players having fun or enjoying themselves or whatever crap it is that we do this week.

We'll discuss it amongst the staff, if people really can't play with each other without being a sack of assery then we'll have to remove yet more features or stick in yet more rules. Hooray.

[OnyxTigress]

I can see that, yeah. I just think it's a bit silly to just tell people "oh just use a weapon you don't care about losing!" when in pvp you're going to want to use your best weapon to not be at a disadvantage, and not have to worry about losing it because someone wants to use a buggy feat.