Raise dead scrolls

[wangxiuming]

What about rash, dumb, or just plain insane characters? Would that deter them from participating in DM events? Although I suppose everybody else would be a lot happier if these types of characters weren't there to begin with... :\

[Esteten]

What about making people who permadies undead? :P

[nutranurse]

There are lots of hardcore, complete permadeath servers on NWN1. As far as I know, no NWN2 PW has that standard yet...

Well Haze, a Hardcore RP server, is gonna have it when the come online on.... monday I believe

I'd favor the possibility of permadeath only in certain pivotal events, as overseen by a senior DM, or by player consent. Either way would mean that your character's death would have some meaning or impact besides "oh, dear, you lagged out one time too many, and now your lives are up".

I Cannot agree with this more, adds to the storyline/character progression if you as me.

[GodBeastX]

What about rash, dumb, or just plain insane characters? Would that deter them from participating in DM events? Although I suppose everybody else would be a lot happier if these types of characters weren't there to begin with... :\

I'm sorry but, that's the person expected to die. You can't tell me you watch a movie in a war or battle and the rash/dumb/insane guy causes you to turn to your buddy and say "10 bucks that guy is dead before the end of the movie." They should die and lose the lives. These are the people who fill events and ruin the mood alot of times because they know they generally aren't going to die right now. I think the tallying death method would hurt these people more than the balanced and normal minded people.

I'd like to think we RP for the story. I for one would hate a story that evil just wins. Movies that do that suck tall balls. The Grudge 2 is a good example of that. It made the whole build up to a possible win pointless because the evil just takes over. I think outward and known villains should expect to die eventually and I think risk takers should expect the gamble not to pay out eventually. That's just me though.

[Esteten]

If evil wins in Sundren, most character will perma die and the server will be lost forever, so good has to win eventually, even if there's up and downs..

I think some kind of permadeath will add alot to the server, we just have to reason out the best kind of it.. Lives? Dm events only? General permadeath upon death?

[Raksha]

My suggestion, if people like the idea of the possibility of permadeath, is that during events or other situations with direct DM oversight, if a character -should be- dead beyond the ability to bring back with a normal spell (body lost, eaten, dead in the Hells, raised as a zombie, Disintegrated and the dust scattered, cremated and the ashes scattered, and any number of other ways), then they take a strike. Three strikes and out -- there are two times that the character can have a divine miracle or a true resurrection or a Return By Plot take place, but the third time it would be curtains.

To give concrete examples:

1.) Joe the Barbarian is killing things in the Necropolis. He eats a Slay Living and fails his save in the upper levels. Probably, he SHOULD be raised as a zombie or just disposed of. However, the Necropolis, for all that it's forbidding and a major power center of evil, is not ordinarily an ongoing DM event. He can respawn without a strike.

2.) Lidda the iconic DnD Rogue is killed when an ogre beats her skull in. She is in the middle of an event. Her friends, having no cleric and no scrolls, RP that they carry her body out with sufficient hands-free and simulation of encumberance by walking. Or with our new corpse-dragging system, yay! Even though she wasn't raised during the event proper, the retrieval of her body was properly RPed out, so that with the wide availalbility of resurrection she could very easily come back. No strike.

3.) Jockie the annoying wisecracking Bard dies in the Underdark as part of an event. His companions look at each other, then point and laugh at his body and leave him, and it's all part of an event. No way would anyone ever discover him down there, let alone recognize him after months or years, so he should be dead for good. He instead gets a strike.

The entire point would be to cut off any complaints by having the strike be given as an act of mercy instead of an act of punishment. I.E., "You actually should have a permadead character, by every law of common sense. We're being nice to you by allowing you to come back this time."

DM supervision would mean that stupid deaths (lag out, transition-mobbed, etc.) would not be punished, and "ordinary" deaths would carry no significant risk besides the hefty EXP loss since they simply can't be screened for such things. Also, having the death occur as part of an event would ensure that it would have a true impact on the others associated with it, and possibly the game world.

Those who don't want their character to die simply don't participate in the Quests of Epic Doom to retrieve artifacts from the Hells or raid the Necropolis for a phylactery. Those sort of things go above and beyond normal adventurer stupid, and should be treated accordingly. And I think it's perfectly reasonable for an experienced character who's taken two strikes (give Tamara for an example) to retire to a nice, quiet life instructing others and letting them bear the risks of evil world-taking over.

[GodBeastX]

I like that write up I'm not the decider of these things, but the above is how I feel pretty much. Except add to it, DM's can return strikes to a character if they feel like it.

[Esteten]

What the last two posts said concludes my opinions.

[Machiavelli]

What about rash, dumb, or just plain insane characters? Would that deter them from participating in DM events? Although I suppose everybody else would be a lot happier if these types of characters weren't there to begin with... :\

What about Torgrim . For example, he has all three of those characteristics, and demonstrating them was always part of RPing the character (he's brain damaged halfling who things he's a dwarf after all). He did things in events like going back after fallen comrades while blowing steam out of his ears, insulting the Alhoon and challenging it to a fight so his companions would be spared (consequently saving the otherwise doomed arses of some vigilant eye members who will not be named, and losing his tongue in the process ). I tried to RP out these characteristics in a way which didn't ruin events (and he would take his lead from others most of the time), but he would often end up with nasty things happening to him due to foolish (brave?) actions. However, he often got alternative penalties to death inflicted by DMs; being mutilated, cursed etc.

Hmmm, was there a point to this... oh yeah! There's plenty of nasty stuff for players to fear (or not fear) from DMs on quests without it being death. I'm sure all you devious quest designing people can think of some things worse than being dead to inflict on players (if not, I sure can ).

This isn't really an opinion on the 'strike' system suggested above, which may be a good idea, just a bit of a ramble while I drink my morning coffee

[Raksha]

Machaeavelli, I very much think that characters like Torgrim are a great, flavorful, rockin' addition to many quests. They open up a lot of RP opportunities when done correctly -- for instance, there was much angsting and wringing of hands between said Eye members after Torgrim did his heroic-sacrifice bit. ^_^

In no way should the DMs be -compelled- to try to kill characters in nasty ways. If there's another way to inflict a lasting and horrifying disability or humiliation on an involved character, that does the same thing -- alert people that thumbing their nose at the alhoon is not a good idea, and may carry actual consequences.

And as for Torgrim, while he was a really fun charrie (hope to see him back!) and a flavorful addition to a lot of quests, the heroic sacrifice and reckless charge means a lot more when there's the distinct possibility that he's not coming back from it.

[GodBeastX]

Yeah, I was never one for events that would wind up in character deaths. They're not very epic to me nor are they fun to endure. However, there's a few characters out there who seems to WANT to die. I don't get it really. I try to give at least 1 option, more if I can think of them, that would obviously spare characters pain... sometimes things just want to talk to people! You know, the sheeps in wolf skins, but people draw their swords, go "FIGHT ME TO THE DEATH!"

I think less people would die in events if they told DMs what they're doing before hand more. Sundren has always been horrible with communicating with their DMs running events. I'd love for players to tell me "My character is going to challenge the Alhoon to spare everyone." Then I can think up on the fly something fun to do with it. However, if they just attack or say something off the wall, how am I supposed to know they're trying to save people? Communication is key. I wish it was pen and paper some days so when people decide to do actions I can just ask "Why?" before they do it.

[undeadsteak]

Hmm.. communcation is very hard with the tools of NwN2. Sending DM's a tell or a message in the DM Channel helps though. But sometimes events are just so quick and fast and you barely think about what your doing its hard to do that.

[GodBeastX]

They're only as fast as players make them ^_^ I usually never have something just pop out and attack unless it's meant to be attacked back just the same way.

[Machiavelli]

I think less people would die in events if they told DMs what they're doing before hand more. Sundren has always been horrible with communicating with their DMs running events. I'd love for players to tell me "My character is going to challenge the Alhoon to spare everyone."

I dig what you're saying GBX, and will endeavour to be good . In the case above, what was going to happen was explicity established through a fair bit of IC dialogue and the option was offered by Kurglmich (by no means did Torgrim just insult the Alhoon and then charge in ). By the same token I have been in events where people just randomly charged, and often it was characters which I would have expected to be less rash (wise druid charges in while insane violent halfling is still contemplating the situation)

[wangxiuming]

(wise druid charges in while insane violent halfling is still contemplating the situation)

...that wasn't me, was it. Sometimes my finger gets overeager