Raise dead scrolls

[Raksha]

If there was a system in place where a corpse could be dropped in front of a priest and raised for a fee, I would wholeheartedly agree with this. Barring this, however, there's simply no good way for people to do something like this, so universal raise scrolls take the place of getting the priest to do it.

I hear that something similar is in the works, so hopefully we'll see raise scrolls usable only by clerics/etc. fairly soon.

[Saulus]

Our corpse system doesn't work due to a bug in NWN2, we've reported it and hopefully it should be in 1.07 final.

[Rhazeal]

I've always read a lot of FR novels (I'm currently reading "Elminster's Daughter" - A book that has gathered dust on my shelf for some time) And in all of them, the characters are afraid of death, no matter how powerful they are. I'd personally love that fear of death to transit into Sundren.

[Esteten]

I double you on that one Rhazeal.

[Felnak]

that would scare people from dying, and be more careful, wouldn't it?
Death is a terrbile thing, and rescurettion is something that purges your soul, eating it a little by little each time.. Does that sound like heaven then tell me! I'll gladly kill someone and rescurret him all over again and again ^^

The point is. Death should be fatal, and when the server get more steady, there'll hopefully be plenty of people around, and since clerics is quite the class to solo with, and qutie the class to do everything with, they'll probably show up sometime. I mean the most imba on nwn1 was dwarven cleric or cleric/monk, wasn't it?

I would like to agree but scaring people into being more careful does not seem to work so well. Inherently, people are careful or not. The result is more dead people and noone to resurrect them.

Receiving a resurrection from a cleric is a dream... these servers cannot support the kind of population required to have clerics available to provide resurrections for fallen allies on any consistent basis.

Too many dwarven clerics and more than one or two cleric/monks running around is... well... not realistic.

All that being said, I favor a mandatory respawn timer where you cannot rejoin the action for something like 5 or 10 minutes after death. That gives the player a period of reflection where they can learn... or become more frustrated.

There is a serious disconnect between character death and player learning. Consider the following all too common exchange. When the player is asked, "Why do you not be more carreful?". The response frequently is RP related... "My character is just not like that". Oh, so RP is your reason for acting foolishly and getting your character killed? This is an RP server... we deal with these fools on a daily basis.

I recommend leaving the raise dead scrolls for all or removing them entirely. Any partial solution will just result in more bickering.

[Esteten]

these servers cannot support the kind of population required to have clerics available to provide resurrections for fallen allies on any consistent basis.

Wrong.. When our server is properly tuned in, it holds the capacity of around 100+ people before making any sign of unstability.
but!
There might not be enough players to constantly have a cleric on, and if there is, maybe they're on the other side of the world, fighting of evil?

[GodBeastX]

Sure, relegating raise dead scrolls to clerics and paladins works great in pen and paper game. I also prefer this method of handling raise dead scrolls. However, these online games are a whole different matter. These characters are all designed to play solo... they suffer from a lack of dependence on other party members and only marginally integrate and compliment each other. Some considerations get brushed by since this is a RP server... like balanced groups rarely form up... that is just not an RP thing. Clerics are not readily available and server population is low. Ultimately, most dead characters would just lie there or release.

I think it's this way because there's the option to. Give people free reign and they only consider themselves 9 out of 10 times. In P&P you have a DM and others to talk to before character creation. We try to offer to people a view of what people are playing through the forums and the statistics page on the forum.

I personally am all for harsh consequences. Why? Because I don't like Sandbox feelings in games. Sandbox feeling is it's just building up a character and nothing really challenges the building. I like the fear that my character will be lost. Man, the best RP I've had in PWs was when DM would announce "If you come into this event, screwing up may get you permakilled" and we all went, unsure. The thrill is just too much to describe really that you might be playing your character for the last.

The detachment is there because it is a sandbox right now. The reluctance to change is there because you're always afraid that "That permadeath might be me!" That's how it should be though. That fear that it might be you is the fear your character should be feeling. That's the attachment that's missing, and only the very real scope of permanently dying at any time will put it there.

[Felnak]

Wrong.. When our server is properly tuned in, it holds the capacity of around 100+ people before making any sign of unstability.
but!
There might not be enough players to constantly have a cleric on, and if there is, maybe they're on the other side of the world, fighting of evil?

OMG, I nearly fell off my chair. 100+ people!!! I have serious doubts that the current platform will be stable enough to support 100+ people. We can always dream.

[Felnak]

I've always read a lot of FR novels (I'm currently reading "Elminster's Daughter" - A book that has gathered dust on my shelf for some time) And in all of them, the characters are afraid of death, no matter how powerful they are. I'd personally love that fear of death to transit into Sundren.

This and what GBX says... characters should fear death. Frequently, players design characters who do not fear death. These characters act foolishly and place other characters at extreme risk of death. Characters die... Players whine... Players get help... Players become more careless. It is a vicious circle. RP is a poor excuse for this behavior.

[GodBeastX]

It's a combination of Server, Platform, and Player trends that decide how many people is feasible.

[Raksha]

What I'm seeing is that most people who favor permadeath actually seek the -threat- of permadeath. Even if it's rarely carried out, 99% of the benefit will be from the threat.

There are lots of hardcore, complete permadeath servers on NWN1. As far as I know, no NWN2 PW has that standard yet, or even one remotely close to it. Right now, the game is just too bug-laden to punish people ICly for the OOC messups of the game. Honestly, I don't think now is the right time. Maybe when you can be assured of not getting mobbed on transition without a chance to respawn, or having the server crash to come back in the middle of a heavy enemy spawn zone, inexplicably not wearing the armor you were previously. (Yes, this happened to me)

I'd favor the possibility of permadeath only in certain pivotal events, as overseen by a senior DM, or by player consent. Either way would mean that your character's death would have some meaning or impact besides "oh, dear, you lagged out one time too many, and now your lives are up".

[Poor_Otis]

How about having raise dead (scroll or spell) follow D&D rules and put the character at the midpoint of the previous level?

That would make people fear death.

Resurrection should be less of a penalty, it one at all.

[GodBeastX]

Dungeon Crawling, I couldn't care less if people died and kept coming back. It's up to the player to RP out fear with that. I know that if I ran the same dungeon 300 times, I might start looking at it as a clean up chore instead of delving into the deadly unknown.

It's the events and DM driven plots where DMs are trying to inspire moods. Joy, sorrow, Hate, and Fear that it becomes a key part in. NPC dies and people should be upset... nope, run and get a band aid and bring em back. There's no way to get people to understand that it's a tragedy. I personally am for a lives system that could be used in plots, earn and lose lives ^_^ Or maybe instead of losing lives, lose a level if you die in an event, and if the DM feels the death was good RP then he could choose not to take the level. That would definitely inspire some fear.

[Esteten]

I like the last part, since I'm all in favor of harsher death penalty, especially when it can be controlled by a DM. I mean, if someone permadies they are not removed, just unplayable, and maybe there will be an event rescurreting the dead characters? hmm?

[Kitsune]

I like the idea of having a set number of "lives" for DM events; players should fear death during events, to get the full experience across, and I believe it would make people care a bit more about their characters. Dungeon crawls are repetitive and death is expected, but during events that actually matter, I like the idea of players being cautious and caring about the saftey of their characters. Also, it would probably prevent players from rushing ahead in events prior to the DM being ready.

I'd only worry that, once players lives were about to run out, they would avoid events because they don't want to lose their characters permenantly and might feel excluded, especially if that's the only character they have time to play.

~Kitsune