Caster buffs

[Lugwy]

I'm also positive that ethereal effects don't last between transitions. Might be one of those bear-to-fix issues, though.

[Doubtful]

There have been numerous impassioned debates about the non-bookishness of the ethereal spells.

Bringing those spells in line with their PNP flavour simply isn't going to happen without a fairly agnosising amount of work and, for many aspects, a new engine.

[thaelis]

Weren't those debates mainly about how you can cast some offensive spells without breaking the etherealness?

As for making ethereal creatures immune to physical and magical attacks, that should be fairly simple (forgive me if I'm wrong on this). Immunity effects are used on other spells, magic items and creatures after all. The hard part would be making them susceptible to the attacks of other ethereal creatures, I guess that's the part that's impossible?

I'd definitely see that as the lesser of two evils though, the <1% of enemies who should be able to attack you being unable to rather than the much greater % of enemies who shouldn't be able to attack you being able to. I think i've seen an NPC use etherealness approximately...once? Also, worst case scenario the two ethereal creatures simply can't attack eachother and have to wait til the spell effect wears off.

Etherealness is meant to be a virtually foolproof getaway for casting classes.

[Fuzziebunny]

Etherealness is meant to be a virtually foolproof getaway for casting classes.

PnP wise: I thought you could get eaten in the etheral plane and that you had to be very careful when you used the spell cause there were big nasties around that might think you were a tasty treat.

Game mechanic wise: The Mindflayer in Whurst uses etheral all the time and you can strip etheralness off him with greater spell breach.

From what I have seen you can damage etheral creatures with spells like earthquake but I am not sure if instanta kill aoe's like implosion and weird work. I would be very interested to know though if you do any tests with that.

[Kitsunestume]

Weren't those debates mainly about how you can cast some offensive spells without breaking the etherealness?

Unfortunately not, as evidenced here.

The primary issue with Etherialness is, in fact, that it is mechanically a high-level invisibility that fires exactly once. Upon being cast by person A, the engine checks the target list of everyone in the area, and removes person A from the currently checked character's list of targets, EVEN IF said character is currently using true-sight. When the spell ends, or someone currently affects casts True Sight, person A is added back to the target list. Here is a logic-tree-format:

1. Bob-The-Vizard casts Etherialness
2. Game finds all charachters who can currently perceive Bob-The-Vizard
3. remove Bob-The-Vizard from perceived targets for (duration of spell)
   • if charcter casts True-Sight after the spell takes effect
     • then add Bob-The-Vizard to Perceived Targets
     
     
   
   

Thats basically it. All calculation done at cast time.

It does not affect any of the following scenarios:

• people who cannot CURRENTLY see you (such as around the corner of a building or far enough away), as you get added when you get closer.
• people in other areas, as you get added when you or they transition since they were not in the effect when the spell was cast.
• your ability to be cherry-tapped with any AOE abilities (Burning Hands/Chain-lightning/Whirlwind Attack/etc.), as that does not rely on the ability to target a character.

I'd say that overall, the spell is actually rather useless. Ethereal Jaunt is much shorter, a lower level spell, does not require gold, and is far better for actually running from combat, which is the only place Etherialness (the property) is beneficial - against a group of hostile people who currently know you exist and are actively trying to target you.

I'm pretty sure it's also useless against traps, too, since those do not (normally) rely on a character's ability to target.

Just a bit of background on the current situation.

[TL : DR] - Ethereal Jaunt + Invisibility > Etherialness. Invisibility actually keeps you hidden :-/

Cheers,
Kit

[edit] It's basically this, but without a will-save.

[thaelis]

So....I'm guessing since Lotus is gone there's no one else who'd be willing/able to implement this stuff?

[DM_BAMF]

We still have the same DEVs we did prior to his retirement, so if any spells would have been changed or implemented previously they still have just as much chance of the same now. (Though being short even one person with some toolset experience is obviously going to make things slower)

That said, most of the focus is presently on updating the module to reflect PC actions and ongoing global plots, which involves map editing, NPC swapping, faction store re-arranging and a lot of the tedious small errands that make things tick. Of course, if players with experience in scripting on the nwn2 engine are interested in helping out, applications to Saulus are always welcome...

[roguethree]

We still have the same DEVs we did prior to his retirement,

Ninety-nine percent of the script/hak/2da changes in the last two years were me, but Snowmane is still alive and capable of making these changes if and when he comes up for air.

[Kirin]

People are going to hate me for pointing this out...

...but Spell Mantle spells do not exist in D&D. It's an invention of NWN. I bring this up not because I mind mantles persay, because you mentioned on the spreadsheet that Superior Resistance was not a druid spell and had it suggested for removal. This is true, but if we're considering taking away the only druid/shaman defense against magic to be closer to pen and paper, then we'd have to do that fairly to the other casters as well.

[toupz]

I have to agree with Kirin, even tho i'm a heavy caster player.

[Peridan]

Mmm, I'd have to only disagree slightly

SPELLMANTLE
Abjuration
Level: Clr 6 (Mystra)
Components:
V, S
Casting Time:
1 full round
Range:Touch
Target:Creature touched
Duration:10 minutes/level
Saving Throw:Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance:Yes (harmless)

You protect the subject with a magical aura that protects
it against one specified spell for every four levels you
have. The spells must be of 4th level or lower and not
spells delivered by a touch attack.

When the subject of the spellmantle is the target of or
within the area of one of the spells it protects against, the
mantle absorbs the spell’s energy completely. The subject
can then direct this energy to one of two purposes:

Healing:
The target immediately receives a cure spell of the level of the spell that was absorbed. The cure spell functions as if you had cast it upon the target. If the
target is unconscious the spell automatically converts to a cure spell without her choice.

Receive Spell:
The energy can immediately trigger a spell upon the target. You designate the spell when you cast the spellmantle, and it must be a spell of 4th level or lower that you have prepared at the time of casting. This does not cause you to lose the prepared spell. If the level of the incoming spell is lower than that of your designated spell, the target cannot activate this affect. Your designated spell functions as if you had cast it upon the target. The duration of this triggered spell can outlast the spell- mantle itself.

For example, you can designate lightning bolt as one of the spells the spellmantle absorbs and choose magic circle against evil to be the spell the subject receives, so every time she is in the area of a lightning bolt(or any of the other spells that you designate for this spell), she is immediately protected by magic circle against evil.
The spellmantle can absorb 1d4 spell levels +1 per four levels (maximum 1d4+5), after which it dissipates. If the spellmantle lacks sufficient capacity to absorb a spell, the spellmantle has no effect.

You're right, it's not a wizard/sorcerer spell. But Magic of Faerun has it listed in an albeit altered form.

[thaelis]

As noted in the spreadsheet, Spell Mantles indeed do not exist in Pnp as a general Cleric/Wizard spell. However, Spell Turning, Elminster's Epuration and some other somewhat equivalent spells do exist, and the differences are marginal. Not to mention that Spell Turning is probably impossible to implement.

Yes, Wizards have slightly more powerful spells than Druids. They also have 33% less hp, 66% the BAB, no armor/weapon proficiency, no Wildshape, poison immunity and a plethora of other abilities Druids get. Just because Wizards get something doesn't mean Druids should get it too, especially when they don't even have access to it in Pnp.

P.s. Just in case you think that's a bias towards Wizards, my main is a Druid

EDIT: Also I just checked the spreadsheet, Superior Resistance aint on there mate. I'm assuming you mean Spell Resistance?

[DM Inquisition]

Actually, the above listing for "Spell Turning" is actually just a faerunian variation of "Spell Immunity" which is also a 4th level cleric spell in PNP. The above version adds some new effects, but overall acts exactly like the 4th level cleric PNP variant.

Spell Immunity
Abjuration
Level: Clr 4, Protection 4, Strength 4
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
The warded creature is immune to the effects of one specified spell for every four levels you have. The spells must be of 4th level or lower. The warded creature effectively has unbeatable spell resistance regarding the specified spell or spells. Naturally, that immunity doesn’t protect a creature from spells for which spell resistance doesn’t apply. Spell immunity protects against spells, spell-like effects of magic items, and innate spell-like abilities of creatures. It does not protect against supernatural or extraordinary abilities, such as breath weapons or gaze attacks.

Only a particular spell can be protected against, not a certain domain or school of spells or a group of spells that are similar in effect.

A creature can have only one spell immunity or greater spell immunity spell in effect on it at a time.

The "spell mantle" spells are indeed NWN specific, mostly mirroring the effects of spell-level absorbing Ioun stones. It does make the spell powerful, since it's not a limited magic item, but there is a way around it. Spell mantle spells only can absorb spell levels of spells that allow for spell resistance. Spells with no spell resistance ignore the ward entirely. Just a heads up. Also, any spell that affects an area for rounds/level will hit the spell every round, eating through it very fast if the caster does not move.

[Kitsunestume]

any spell that affects an area for rounds/level will hit the spell every round, eating through it very fast if the caster does not move.

As does any spell that affects any target multiple times. A 9th level caster using Magic Missile will burn through 5 spell-levels worth of protection, since each missile is checked individually. One Issac's Lesser Missile storm eats though 40 levels (4th level X 10 missiles), and an IGMS eats through 60 (6th level X 10 missiles) if you need to strip 4-10 people of Spell-Mantle at once. Same thing occurs with Flame Arrow and such.

Proper P&P calculations should roll once for SR vs the entire spell or none of it. NWN2 doesn't work that way.

[thaelis]

Link to spreadsheet of magical goodness:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...VE&usp=sharing

Added
Aura (holy, unholy, chaos, law)
Locate creature
Mind blank, lesser
Shadow body (aka Shadow shield)
Simulacrum, lesser (aka Glass doppelganger)
Undeath's eternal foe
Visage of the deity, greater
Wrathful mantle (aka Conviction)

Amended
Earthquake
Elminster's effulgent epuration
Planar binding (all three versions)