Eh... Why?

[Fury]

These quests should not be solo-able. The fact that there are people who do, and brag about how easy it is? Makes my heart weep, because that's just... missing the whole damn point of why we're playing the game we are.

And yes, the fact that I can get in a group to go do Whurest only to find it has been gutted out by a single Paladin also makes me nerd rage.

[Fuzziebunny]

If the intent is to make it non soloable then I agree with Kit on increasing those archers. Beef those guys up a bit with better AC and you will increase the difficulty for sure.

[Fury]

If the intent is to make it non soloable then I agree with Kit on increasing those archers. Beef those guys up a bit with better AC and you will increase the difficulty for sure.

How about making the power classes less dick-swinging uber? It's just a thought.

[Fuzziebunny]

It is not a matter of a "power" class here. Chime is a level 20 with only 100 hit points. She has solo'ed the quest before. That is not bragging. It is hard to do. If that vampire hits her once she is dead. I am not sure that qualifies as a power build honestly. I mean... It is a matter of knowing which spells to use I think.

As for Pallies... They kill evil. It is just their thing. It the quest was against neutral I think most of them would struggle too.

[zypherman]

These quests should not be solo-able. The fact that there are people who do, and brag about how easy it is? Makes my heart weep, because that's just... missing the whole damn point of why we're playing the game we are.

And yes, the fact that I can get in a group to go do Whurest only to find it has been gutted out by a single Paladin also makes me nerd rage.

QFT

Balancing content around power gamers is a slippery slope that leads players feeling like their non-power gamed characters are totally worthless.

[Lotus]

How about making the power classes less dick-swinging uber? It's just a thought.

Our class balance is superior to any other PW. The "power classes" are bard, paladin, fighter, wizard (and EK), sorcerer, cleric, favored soul, ranger, spirit shaman, master of radiance, arcane archer, assassin, and sacred fist, and many builds utilizing those classes and others not mentioned here. The only base classes yet to be meaningfully improved that need it are rogue and barbarian, and even our rogues are better than you're going to find anywhere else.

I could nerf 50 percent of Sundren's classes and make them unfun to play, and we could return to the days when clerics and wizards were 70% of the PCs in play. We could also dumb down the content such that you could make any build and smash your keyboard with your face and still win. I'd rather continue improving the classes that need improvement and gradually scale up the dungeon content.

[Gamling]

Our class balance is superior to any other PW. The "power classes" are bard, paladin, fighter, wizard (and EK), sorcerer, cleric, favored soul, ranger, spirit shaman, master of radiance, arcane archer, assassin, and sacred fist, and many builds utilizing those classes and others not mentioned here. The only base classes yet to be meaningfully improved that need it are rogue and barbarian, and even our rogues are better than you're going to find anywhere else.

I could nerf 50 percent of Sundren's classes and make them unfun to play, and we could return to the days when clerics and wizards were 70% of the PCs in play. We could also dumb down the content such that you could make any build and smash your keyboard with your face and still win. I'd rather continue improving the classes that need improvement and gradually scale up the dungeon content.

I'd rather have more OP characters with different class types than just a bunch of casters spamming bigbys/self buff destroy everything.

If you just keep in mind that EVERY character dies eventually you'll get less mad when you do die. Besides, there's no XP penalty on death... there's no risk in attempting the quest other than possible item loss and gold, and that's if a friend doesn't bring you to a temple.

And if a character is stronger than you and you'll know you'll die in a straight up fight then use RP to defeat him. Or gang up on him with 7 other people and curb stomp them. That's my personal favorite.

[Fury]

Magic users are able to solo this quest, and quite frankly that doesn't rankle me horribly simply because they need help everywhere else. Yes, it still irks me because these quests, since they are giving epic level XP, simply should not be solo-able.

And ok, sure. Paladins smite evil. They smite undead. This is their purpose in life, I got that. The problem is they are smiting everything else with such equal ferocity that the class is attracting the type of player that must be the best at all costs and has absolutely no concept of how to play the damn class. Honestly, considering the commitment a paladin has to make to their faith, I would honestly suggest it being an app only class. Paladins are supposed to be paragons of their faith- not idiots with swords and way more holy power than common sense.

It's not the only class. The standard fighter/shadow dancer/arcane archer build is the same damn way, if you ask me. I realize there will always be the type of person that sits down and tweaks and researches what the most powerful build is just so they can stroke their egos by roflstomping their way through any of the content and telling everyone else how awesome they are. It's just infuriating to everyone else that actually wants to develop a character.

[Phantom Lamb]

Magic users are able to solo this quest, and quite frankly that doesn't rankle me horribly simply because they need help everywhere else. Yes, it still irks me because these quests, since they are giving epic level XP, simply should not be solo-able.

And ok, sure. Paladins smite evil. They smite undead. This is their purpose in life, sure. The problem is they are smiting everything else with equal ferocity that the class is attracting the type of player that must be the best at all costs and has absolutely no concept of how to play the damn class.

It's not the only class. The standard fighter/shadow dancer/arcane archer build is the same damn way, if you ask me. I realize there will always be the type of person that sits down and tweaks and researches what the most powerful build is just so they can stroke their egos by roflstomping their way through any of the content and telling everyone else how awesome they are. It's just infuriating to everyone else that actually wants to develop a character.

I do agree with this stuff a lot and share your opinions on these classes. That being said, I think the problem you're presenting is not exclusively tied to this quest.

One thing that would be cool is to find ways to REWARD those other types of power builds. I think this can be done by incorporate skill-based things... but it's just so hard to automate in an exciting way. Combat is exciting; conversations with skill checks are not.

There have been some great ideas floating around for daily quests with skills incorporated. I think that will help as Saulus mentioned.

[Gamling]

What if they add a diplomacy, bluff or intimidate option to the quests? This should probably go into the suggestion forum but I think that seems plausible. Force the vampires to back down, or lie to the paladin to get him to leave.

[[DM] Grinning Death]

Magic users are able to solo this quest, and quite frankly that doesn't rankle me horribly simply because they need help everywhere else. Yes, it still irks me because these quests, since they are giving epic level XP, simply should not be solo-able.

And ok, sure. Paladins smite evil. They smite undead. This is their purpose in life, I got that. The problem is they are smiting everything else with such equal ferocity that the class is attracting the type of player that must be the best at all costs and has absolutely no concept of how to play the damn class. Honestly, considering the commitment a paladin has to make to their faith, I would honestly suggest it being an app only class. Paladins are supposed to be paragons of their faith- not idiots with swords and way more holy power than common sense.

It's not the only class. The standard fighter/shadow dancer/arcane archer build is the same damn way, if you ask me. I realize there will always be the type of person that sits down and tweaks and researches what the most powerful build is just so they can stroke their egos by roflstomping their way through any of the content and telling everyone else how awesome they are. It's just infuriating to everyone else that actually wants to develop a character.

This is a bit off topic, but I felt as though it deserves an in-depth response.

I understand your frustration, and your dislike of certain builds that do not take into account mandatory role play elements, or use RP as a central theme rather than a satellite interest in comparison to mechanical interest. I really do.

But the fact remains, is that this server is here for everyone, regardless of playstyle or preference within the context of the rules we've laid down. We've designed the rules to allow players to have a great deal of flexibility with how they play, as long as it remains true to the central theme of RP.

That means that players are free to powerbuild. They're free to solo things (albeit, we don't necessarily enjoy it). They're free to PvP as they want within the rules, and they're free to reap the consequences of their actions.

These freedoms are necessary to this server, and should remain so. While I understand your frustration, it is up to the server to allow people to play as they want to play within the rules.

Now, on the flip side, people are free not to play with others to an extent. They don't have to interact with, promote, or otherwise associate with players that prefer the mechanical portion of the server over the roleplaying. That, again, is a freedom that's provided to the people here.

What's most important, and I've spoken recently with people on this, is that everyone provides roleplay and a playstyle that's fun for themselves and others. This means that the choices you make as a player and a PC should reflect what is fun for you, but alternatively what you think is fun for others. If others express their disapproval, and they don't have fun, it might mean you need to stop and think about how your playstyle is fun for others, and what changes you may need to make in order to accommodate their own playstyle.

tl;dr

We're all here to have a good time. Be considerate of others and how they like to have fun, and they'll try to do the same.

[Phantom Lamb]

Every time you see a paladin go off to solo Whurest for the tenth time that day, just remember all of the awesome benefits River gets by virtue of her station. You don't get that by grinding

What if they add a diplomacy, bluff or intimidate option to the quests? This should probably go into the suggestion forum but I think that seems plausible. Force the vampires to back down, or lie to the paladin to get him to leave.

Could certainly be done in the conversation as it is in the gatehouse rep repeatable quests. But again, it's just boring and anti-climatic way to use those skills unfortunately.

[crawmorr]

I think this can be done by incorporate skill-based things... but it's just so hard to automate in an exciting way. Combat is exciting; conversations with skill checks are not.

This is a Role Play Server , reading this makes me confuse !

[Kitsunestume]

This is a Role Play Server , reading this makes me confuse !

I think PL means that looking at a RNG result from the engine is probably one of the least engaging means by which inter-character conflict can be resolved, even between NPCs and PCs. Sure it represents how good you are at it, but it's still roll-play instead of role-play, and I would fully agree with PL's statement. Good in theory, unfortunately limited in opportunities for meaningful execution.

[Valhalla]

Re: Fury's effortpost.


I actually agree with a lot of that sentiment despite usually building characters as mechanically sound as I can, within reason. I think there's more of a grey area and less of a razor's edge than you're implying, though.

Kimaris doesn't have a stat below 10. Neither does Venara, my Ranger. Both of them invested in skills with no mechanical benefit despite limited skill points. Kimaris got Knighted by a noble and is part of a reasonably large RP organization. I also happened to get him to level 20 in like 4 days and got him to 10k reputation in the Helmite faction in a little under 2 weeks.*

Mechanical prowess and RP aren't mutually exclusive. There's a ton of classes that can sacrifice some mechanical badassery (like fighters) for more RP potential and still be an incredibly valuable part of any PvP/PvE situation. Byrun is another good example here. He's not a hardline powerbuild, but the 1 time I was in a PvP with him he more than carried his weight.

Not to say you're wrong, but I do think your viewpoint there has been slightly colored by playing a class with considerably less ability to be mechanically sound and solo-capabale.

*One of the big things about PWs for me is I really detest campfire RP. For me, I find mindlessly grinding Whurest with some friends to be vastly more enjoyable while still spending time on the server. I don't really think that makes me the demons!


Edit: Also, Paladins.