Intuitive Attack

[Valhalla]

e:fb ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Especially with the Pathfinderizing of Fighters and Paladins, Monks are hilariously limp-wristed. They're not bad per-say, but you're no where near as useful as either of the above.

Edit 2: Especially when you can play a Sacred Fist and be everything that a Monk wanted to be and more, except vulnerable to mordes.

[Lotus]

I didn't know that Monks were supposed to fight tank characters and be successful. That seems to go against their kit, which is anti-mage, anti-stealth, anti-range, and they have the option to simply not engage anyone they don't want to engage.

The Monk SR at level 20 is 30, which against a 20th level caster is a 50/50 shot at resisting the spell. If the caster has Greater Spell Penetration, the Monk still has a 30% chance to ignore the spell.

The Monk is crazy fast. This benefit cannot be overstated.

A 20 Monk has 20 Stunning Fists per day and 5 attacks per round. It's a Fortitude save, which is very effective against non-warrior characters. Same with Quivering Palm.

A Monk has 3 high saves and Improved Evasion. A Monk is immune to all mind-affecting spells and abilities.

The Monk gets 50% concealment twice a day for round/level.

Monks are very good at what they're intended to do. We don't need to add feats to shoehorn them into a spot that isn't theirs.

[Cornuto]

I don't care if my monk has a hard time punching paladins to death, I just want the mobs to stop chewing him up.

[Valhalla]

They're not bad per-say, but you're no where near as useful as either of the above.

For clarity's sake, I referring to PvE here.

[Phantom Lamb]

Maybe the feat only affects creature weapons and unarmed? That way it would have a dual purpose, helping MOMF as well as Monk.

[thaelis]

Maybe the feat only affects creature weapons and unarmed? That way it would have a dual purpose, helping MOMF as well as Monk.

Maybe design it so the bonus is only Wis bonus-1 or -2. So it would never be 100% as good as maxing your Dexterity/Strength, it's just an extra option there if you wanted to build a Wis-based monk.

Or, only affects light weapons and unarmed, much like weapon finesse.

Or a combination of both. Can only be used with light weapons (Unarmed, Kama etc) and maxes out at Wis-1. Would still be well worth taking for even a Wis 26 Monk (start 18, +5 level up and +3 item).

[Mournas]

Just code it like weapon finesse, it's not like clerics will ever live up to the sheer battle prowess of a fighter. It will allow monks to have a bit more focus on being that hard discipline they are supposed to have.

[thaelis]

It's true it would be nice for Monks and even those Druids who wanted to be badass in melee. Another possibility would be to make the existing Zen Archery feat this feat's prerequisite.

(the reason I feel it need some sorta prereq/downside is that it makes your prime spellcasting stat become your prime combat stat too, and that is pretty damned awesome for Clerics/Druids. Especially with that Owl's Insight BS)

[Lotus]

the reason I feel it need some sorta prereq/downside is that it makes your prime spellcasting stat become your prime combat stat too, and that is pretty damned awesome for Clerics/Druids. Especially with that Owl's Insight BS

That combination had occurred to me, and it is part of the many reasons that together compose no.

[Mournas]

That combination had occurred to me, and it is part of the many reasons that together compose no.

Please, cause that's any more broken than what fighters currently are, Which can easily get Paladin Saves, Paladin AC (With Divine Shield UP), Weapon Master DPS, with a super easy stat spread and. Highly doubt that a couple extra points of AB is game breaking by any means.

[sonuvalich]

It just occurred to me that Lotus is, in fact, Dr. Evil:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx2bHvlwkvM

I think the feat as a monk-only feat wouldn't be terribly unfair, since it added only to AB and not also to dmg. It would have to be like a bonus monk feat at high level though, to prevent people from doing their lame Sacred Fist shenanigans!

[Lotus]

Please, cause that's any more broken than what fighters currently are, Which can easily get Paladin Saves, Paladin AC (With Divine Shield UP), Weapon Master DPS, with a super easy stat spread

Saves: No, they can't. Not with real math or the fake stuff you used to come to that conclusion.
AC: Who cares? Only one class gets to be good at AC? Get real.
DPS: Duh. That was the point.
Super Easy Stat Spread: Debatable all day. If you want to be a min-maxed doorknob, sure. If you want to hit hard, have the super sweet paladin AC, qualify for utility feats, have hit points, and have a personality, not so much.

[Mournas]

Saves: No, they can't. Not with real math or the fake stuff you used to come to that conclusion.
AC: Who cares? Only one class gets to be good at AC? Get real.
DPS: Duh. That was the point.
Super Easy Stat Spread: Debatable all day. If you want to be a min-maxed doorknob, sure. If you want to hit hard, have the super sweet paladin AC, qualify for utility feats, have hit points, and have a personality, not so much.

Seeing as they can get to +20 naked Will save naked then add in all the Save throw gear *gasps* easily top 30 20 30 as a Fighter. A stat spread of 16 14 14 14 10 14 isn't very min maxed and with gear you can easily be 24 16 18 14 10 18 Not exactly what I would call a Door Knob. I expressed over a year ago that Fighters could get their Saves up over 20, just because you can't figure it out doesn't mean they can't. Took someone who is good with builds about a year to see that I wasn't full of poop with claiming this.

So Prebuff you're walking around with 42 AB with Paladin Saves and AC, with that sweet 17-20 x 4 Crit.

I guess what I am saying is that your argument for the Intuitive attack not coming into the game is a really weak argument. So yes, please, let's get real here.

[Cornuto]

The fuck is going on in this thread? I just wanted monks to be less shitty.

[Mournas]

The fuck is going on in this thread? I just wanted monks to be less shitty.

I'm all for Intuitive attack, and honestly it should be put in to the server, even if it is only for monks at a higher level. Though, it is not OP or Broken for a Cleric or Druid to take either. Truth.