Stoneskin Scrolls

[Laurk]

That's true they were necromancy Kit, but not arcane necromancy. Only divine Necromancy. The idea is that only a God (or powerful spirits) can refine positive energy into "healing" power. Some of the massive quanties of that creative force remained in the latent energy of the land or in the spirits that reside there and that's the power source druids tapped into.

Arcane casters studiying the necromancy school attempted to replicate that divine refining of power for healing while cicumventing the Gods, but in the end it was found that a wizard could only "steal" life from one source and give it to another. He couldn't actually heal.

While in 3.5 cure spells are "Conjuration Spells" that bring positive energy to the point of contact which heals wounds, I believe this is a mistake. That energy needs to be refined first or it would only harm the recipient. Necromancy should still be the proper school. Otherwise, arcanists could also use conjuration to blast someone in positive energy and heal them.

edit: I also blame the image consultants.

double edit: Most of the early D&D was taken from earth based lore and fairytales. So "Druids" Come from the old Drywish druids of Britain, and as they kept their history and religeon through songs and tales rather than written word, those orators of the knoweldge came to be known as bards. So on earth, actual "bards" were a decendant of "Druids." This concept was brought into early D&D.

[Kitsunestume]

I can see where your coming from, but am tempted to classify that as weasel words, and attach:

The idea[Citation Needed - Whos Idea?] is that only a God (or powerful spirits) can refine positive energy into "healing" power.

If you have a referable source though, I'd be most gracious and quite happy to ensure I'm drawing conclusions from the same data-set.
Please understand that I don't mean to be argumentative, just properly informed.

[Yevelian]

I still hate the stupid non lawful restriction.

This humped me early on. I'm glad you guys fixed that, too late for me, but not for others.

[Laurk]

oh that's a tall order. Alright, im hunting down source. Going to take time. Ive got a pretty big library.

Update: Here's something. This is from the 2nd edition book: The complete book of Necromancy

Benign or White Necromancy

A third and final category of necromancy embraces magic of a benign or beneficial nature. White necromancy
includes spells which restore and fortify the living body or life force (such as delay death (WH), empathic
wound transfer, bone growth, Spendelard's chaser (FOR), Nulathoe's ninemen (FOR), and reincarnation) or derive
their power from the caster's own life force (such as spirit armor (TOM) or homunculus shield (TOM)) or can
be used only to disable undead (such as hold undead and bind undead). Note, however, that spells that control undead are not considered white necromancy!

Although white magic can be used to heal wounds and bone fractures, it is no substitute for clerical healing.
White necromancy derives its healing power from a volunteer's source of life energy (often the caster's), as in empathic wound transfer. Clerical magic, in contrast, bestows healing through a combination of faith and divine
authority. Short of a wish (or for a brief duration, a limited wish), wizard spells cannot "create" new hit points, the

Art usually shuttles life force from a donor to recipient.

So this establishes that arcane magic only "transfers" life force or healing from one place to another, and cannot actually "create" new HP. For this you need a combination of faith & divine authority. You need a God to create that healing.

[Doubtful]

double edit: Most of the early D&D was taken from earth based lore and fairytales. So "Druids" Come from the old Drywish druids of Britain, and as they kept their history and religeon through songs and tales rather than written word, those orators of the knoweldge came to be known as bards. So on earth, actual "bards" were a decendant of "Druids." This concept was brought into early D&D.

Early D&D was just a huge mash of absolutely every fantasy inspiration source going, the slow process of refinment down the years has parred down the world from a truly horrendous mashup to a slightly more tolerable one.

I guess we just expect more depth and rationality in our fantasy these days!

Anyway, a druid druid? My Welsh is a little rusty, but I know dryw in both its forms! It's probably safe to say that oral traditions, history and storytelling were a big thing in almost every culture (and still are) and that iron age Brits didn't have a monopoly on it! But, yes, horrendously strong link to the land and mysticism back in the early days. Honestly, given the influences I'm always suprised that elves/fey aren't all total bastards in D&D.

[Kitsunestume]

oh that's a tall order. Alright, im hunting down source. Going to take time. Ive got a pretty big library.

Sure. Thanks.

Honestly, given the influences I'm always suprised that elves/fey aren't all total bastards in D&D.

You recall Eirimil, right?

[Laurk]

Kit, I updated. Moved the update here: This is from the 2nd edition "Complete Book of Necromancy"

Benign or White Necromancy

A third and final category of necromancy embraces magic of a benign or beneficial nature. White necromancy includes spells which restore and fortify the living body or life force (such as delay death (WH), empathic wound transfer, bone growth, Spendelard's chaser (FOR), Nulathoe's ninemen (FOR), and reincarnation) or derive their power from the caster's own life force (such as spirit armor (TOM) or homunculus shield (TOM)) or can be used only to disable undead (such as hold undead and bind undead). Note, however, that spells that control undead are not considered white necromancy!

Although white magic can be used to heal wounds and bone fractures, it is no substitute for clerical healing. White necromancy derives its healing power from a volunteer's source of life energy (often the caster's), as in empathic wound transfer. Clerical magic, in contrast, bestows healing through a combination of faith and divine authority. Short of a wish (or for a brief duration, a limited wish), wizard spells cannot "create" new hit points, the Art usually shuttles life force from a donor to recipient.

Honestly, given the influences I'm always suprised that elves/fey aren't all total bastards in D&D

Well that would be the Tolkien factor.

So yes according to the 2nd edition PH:

In precise historical terms, the title "bard" applies only to certain groups of Celtic poets who sang the history of their tribes in long, recitative poems. These bards, found mainly in in Ireland, Wales, and Scotland, filled many important roles in their society. They were store-houses of tribal history, reporters of news, messengers, and even ambassadors to other tribes. However, in the AD&D game, the bard is a more generialized character.

[Kitsunestume]

Fair enough! Thanks for that. so yeah, it's manipulating life-force, as opposed to generating life-force. Damned clerics: violating laws of conservation.

Now I kinda want a reverse-Vampiric-Touch. >.>

[Laurk]

That's why it was important to me to split bardic magic so that the "curing" comes from their "Bard Song" which is divine, and the arcane stuff comes from well... the weave.

I will RP this way stubbornly IG when a bard claims their cure spells are "arcane" and I don't care who thinks Abby is crazy. To me this is one of those bits of source that should never have been trampled on.

Theres lots of other source to back this up too, though I can't tell you how hard its going to be to dig up. For example, I know one of the greatest examples of the "history of Necromancy" is expressed SOMEWHERE in the Dragon Lance Chroniacles where Raistlin(or someone like him) talks about how the first necromancers were people trying to replace the gods as healers, but ultimatly failed and could only steal life.. but ill be damned if im going to comb those books looking for it.

[[DM] Grinning Death]

We're not even close to being in 2nd Edition any more, nor are we counting healing towards anything but arcane spells where bards are concerned.

It's a moot issue.

[Laurk]

As I said above, these were changes I made to my PnP game and had nothing to do with "Sundren."

On the other hand, what Abby "thinks" and what reality is are very possibly two differant things. In her mind, healing is divine. Arcane magic can only steal lifeforce, therefore its impossible that bards are casting arcane spells when they cure. PCs are free to call her a looney.

[Torgar]

Oh, we will. Repeatedly and often.

[Elusa]

As far as Sundren lore goes, I might describe bard healing as tapping into a more intuitive part of the weave that wizards and sorcerers can't access due to their more destructive tendencies. Or whatever, it's best left up to interpretation.

As for stoneskin scrolls, blame the SRD.