Stoneskin Scrolls

[Phantom Lamb]

Stoneskin scrolls are usable by bards, but not by rangers. Isn't this backwards? Should be an easy swap to do for Sundren, even though it's out of the can as such. It's in the ranger spell list, but not bards.

I searched for this and didn't find it - apologies if it's been brought up already.

[Farmboy2003]

bark skin?

Id love to be able to use stoneskin scrolls with my ranger. Woo DR. But its not in the ranger spell book.

rangers can use grease scrolls for some reason... Probably an obsidian oversight

[BubbaCornbread]

As Farmboy stated, stoneskin is not in the Ranger spell list. However, I think it makes sense since they are closer to nature and thus druids. If bards can use them, I would think that rangers could use them.

Druid, cleric, ranger
Wizard, sorcerer, bard

They are all similar in aspects of their magic, IMO

[Farmboy2003]

rangers with stoneskin in their spell list are completely OP.

[Phantom Lamb]

Holy crud, did I misread something in-game? Sorry folks If it's not in the spell book, I withdraw my suggestion!

[Aniril_Telin]

*sings* Noril can use it anyway.

[Laurk]

And really if you want to get technical.... Bards are decendents of Druids. So techincally it makes more sense that bards would get it than Rangers.

So this is off topic and literally has "nothing" to do with Sundren... but since the thread is already finished as the OP recended his suggestion, here is something you PnP DMs may find interesting (or not?). I know it says in 3.5 that bardic magic is arcane, but I say lies! Cure spells are divine. Otherwise how the bajebus is it that the closest thing the mightest wizards in the history of Faerun could come to divine healing was necromancy? Now in 2nd edition, bards were supposed to be the Jack-of-all-trades who could help augment any part of a balanced team when needed. I don't think this needed to go.

In my PnP games, I actually split bard's magic into two categories. They can book learn arcane spells just like a wizard (albeit to a much lesser degree), and they have their Bardic Music. I RP that this ancient form of magic calls upon the latent "divine" or "spiritual" energy of the land (much like the Druids from which they come) to produce divine magical effects. Each of the various diciplines of Bardic Music (singing, dancing, oratory, precussion, strings etc) have their own types of "songs" which can be learned and mastered, almost like spells. Bards start out with one "Mastery" and 2 "Secondary" diciplines, and as they progress, can learn and master more diciplines.

When it comes to the various "Bard Songs" some are more effective in certain mediums than others, or completely unusuable. For example "Dance of Deception" which acts almost like a "Blink" effect is most potent to a bard who has mastered "Dance" than "acting," and can't even be used with mediums such as "Precussion" or "Strings."

The sorts of effects differ greatly: For example a Master of oration might use "Inspire Greatness" by giving a speach before a battle which gives the PC's low bonuses for a medium duration without the Bard having to "maintain" his speach. Whereas "War Drums" are something that you get moderate bonuses from, but can maintain indefinatly (and goes away if you stop). Meanwhile he might use his Acting to perform "Rallying Cry" which gives large but short-lived bonuses that the bard doesn't need to concentrait on, leaving him free to do other things while the bonuses yet linger.

Pipes tend to control beasts and other things, strings tend to have distracting, hypnotic or calming effects and etc etc.

Anyway, this winds up making Bards very customisable to their differant focuses and makes for some pretty interesting combinations and magical effects being possible.

But its in this "divine" Bardsong magic that Bards get Spells like "Healing Wind" where they can actually cure damage if they know how to sing or play wind instruments.

[Valhalla]

And really if you want to get technical.... Bards are decendents of Druids.

What.

[Satoshi]

Laurk is correct. In older editions of D&D, Bards were kin to druids.

[Valhalla]

Huh. That's interesting, because iirc in more recent versions it's hinted pretty heavily that natural arcane casters are descended from dragons and such. Which is why RDD has a bard/sorcerer prereq.

[Laurk]

In older editions, bards cast arcane spells out of a book exactly like a wizard did. 3.5 changed this, and in my opinion, not in a good way. Thats why I put the note there that my post really had nothing to do with Sundren. In my own PnP games, I still use some of the lore from 2nd edition. I don't really like spontanerous arcane casting, esspecially not for bards. A Bard is a wealth of knoweldge, which is why he dabbles in everything, even arcane magic. To me it makes no sense that his spells would be inate. His spells should be book learned because it completely ties in with the philosphy of the class which is, he knows a little of everything and picks tons of skills up throughout his life. Hense why the 2nd edition bard was a jack of all trades who could fill in anywhere in the group as needed.

Its the bardic magic I treat as divine. Just because I think its cool.

So basically a bard has enough martial ability to back up the fighter in a pinch. Enough rogue skills to cover for the theif, enough arcane to suppliment the wizard, and enough divine bardic magic to fill in for the cleric/druid if he has too.

[Doubtful]

It's the slow refinement and changes that have done that, way back in the early days bard was a prc that required druid.

Changed a lot since then, some of it positive some of it negative.

I still hate the stupid non lawful restriction.

[Kitsunestume]

You know, Laurk; with all due respect, you seem to end up with some of the most off the wall interpretations for a lot of stuff.

And I seem to recall that pre-third-ed, all the cure spells were Necromancy, as they had to do with the manipulation of life, and wizards could actually use them.
However, I may be wrong, and someone will inevitably provide evidence to the contrary if it is a significant error.

[edit] Seems I've been proven wrong before I managed to post. sadface.

[OnyxTigress]

I still hate the stupid non lawful restriction.

Thankfully, that no longer applies here!

[Doubtful]

They really were necromancy and it made a hell of a lot more sense for them to be so rather than getting wedged into conjuration, though I think it was still just divine casters who could cast them.

I blame the image consultants.

Thankfully, that no longer applies here!

That's gone through at last! Hurrah! Quick, to the build-mobile! my bards no longer have to lack a strong sense of discipline and can promote self control!