Make the Ethereal spells grant Invisibility.

[kitteninablender]

Whenever a creature goes Ethereal, they are also supposed to be Invisible.

Is there any chance the Etherealness/Ethereal Jaunt spells could be modified so that they apply the effects of the Invisibility spell to their recipients as well?

[Lotus]

Probably. Probably going to make any spellcasting action break etherealness, too.

[Starrizer]

DnD Glossary 3.5

On the Ethereal Plane. An ethereal creature is invisible, inaudible, insubstantial, and scentless to creatures on the Material Plane, but visible and corporeal to creatures on the Ethereal Plane. As such, such a creature is capable of moving through solid objects on the Material Plane and in any direction (even up or down), though all movement is at half speed. Most magical attacks have no effect on them. See invisibility and true seeing reveal ethereal creatures.

Ethereal beings can see and hear what is happening in the same area of the Material Plane to a distance of 60 feet, though material objects still block sight and sound. (An ethereal creature can't see through a material wall, for instance.) Things on the Material Plane, however, look gray, indistinct, and ghostly. An ethereal creature can't affect the Material Plane, not even magically. An ethereal creature, however, interacts with other ethereal creatures and objects the way material creatures interact with material creatures and objects.

Even if a creature on the Material Plane can see an ethereal creature (for instance, with see invisibility), the ethereal creature is on another plane. Only force effects (such as magic missile) can affect the ethereal creatures. If, on the other hand, both creatures are ethereal, they can affect each other normally.

A force effect originating on the Material Plane extends onto the Ethereal Plane, so that a wall of force blocks an ethereal creature, and a magic missile can strike one (provided the spellcaster can see the ethereal target). Gaze effects and abjurations also extend from the Material Plane to the Ethereal Plane. None of these effects extend from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane.

Ethereal creatures move in any direction (including up or down) at will. They do not need to walk on the ground, and material objects don't block them (though they can't see while their eyes are within solid material).

Ghosts have a power called manifestation that allows them to appear on the Material Plane as incorporeal creatures. Still, they are on the Ethereal Plane, and another ethereal creature can interact normally with a manifesting ghost.

Ethereal creatures pass through and operate in water as easily as air.

Ethereal creatures do not fall or take falling damage.

D20SRD Ethereal Jaunt:

You become ethereal, along with your equipment. For the duration of the spell, you are in a place called the Ethereal Plane, which overlaps the normal, physical, Material Plane. When the spell expires, you return to material existence.

An ethereal creature is invisible, insubstantial, and capable of moving in any direction, even up or down, albeit at half normal speed. As an insubstantial creature, you can move through solid objects, including living creatures. An ethereal creature can see and hear on the Material Plane, but everything looks gray and ephemeral. Sight and hearing onto the Material Plane are limited to 60 feet.

Force effects and abjurations affect an ethereal creature normally. Their effects extend onto the Ethereal Plane from the Material Plane, but not vice versa. An ethereal creature can’t attack material creatures, and spells you cast while ethereal affect only other ethereal things. Certain material creatures or objects have attacks or effects that work on the Ethereal Plane.

Treat other ethereal creatures and ethereal objects as if they were material.

If you end the spell and become material while inside a material object (such as a solid wall), you are shunted off to the nearest open space and take 1d6 points of damage per 5 feet that you so travel.

You attacking from the Ethereal is simply you leaving the planes themselves. Also, the game can't be scripted combat wise to allow me to exit that cave by floating through the walls to escape the situation (nor even execute that ability RP wise without a DM present) - to substitute that I believe we should be able to cast our wards and abilities while in the other planes. Though I know it's a bit of a problem in some situations - it's a powerful spell that is made to where basically only a spell-caster can truly counter it.


However, this is my personal opinion I'm positive you have very good reason for doing so Lotus and I'm sure you opinion will benefit us as a whole!

(And if you were being sarcastic :P Muh bad.)

[and break 12345]

Mostly the summoning death knights from Ethereal and letting it kill people while you lol thing.

[Lotus]

Summons, Shadow Simulacrum, and it's just cheesy.

"Oh, you caught me off guard." *phase, full buff* "What I meant to say was, I have brought the full might of my god to smite you."

[ManUtd4Ever]

Probably. Probably going to make any spellcasting action break etherealness, too.

...and there was much rejoicing!

[Starrizer]

On the other hand: Oh, you caught me off guard and your fully buffed - let my exquisite amount of magical training mean nothing as you stomp my guts in :P

I'd suggest on cast if it removed Ethereal (not sure why) - buff the duration so we can escape with no problems


Or if they're using cheap tactics

Summons, Shadow Simulacrum

Just make it where summons would break it? By technicality they're summoning from the Ethereal so it's a valid tactic. :P


"Pick and chose your battles" I always say.

( I don't pick fights with stealthies they'll mess me up! ) Anosh took Drake out in an instant and I couldn't get one spell off (and I was defense buffed) The small 4 AC from Divine magic wouldn't have made a difference.

[Lotus]

I'd suggest on cast if it removed Ethereal (not sure why) - buff the duration so we can escape with no problems

Round/level is plenty long to hit a transition.

[Laurk]

Id recomending a simpler fix. Just RP it as the NWN1 spells; Greater Sanctuary and Mass Greater Sanctuary.

The Ethreal spells acts almost nothing like the PnP version, however acts EXACTLY like the Greater Sanctuary spell from NWN1.

Infact Sanctuary doesn't even make you invisable. It just makes hostile things unable to attack you. It is actually described that hostile things ignore you completely.

[thaelis]

"Force effects and abjurations affect an ethereal creature normally. " - Imo this would be plenty of an Achillies heel for the spell if it could be implemented.

This spell is virtually the only way a spellcaster can have a chance against a Fighter, buying them time to get buffed. Making any spellcasting cancel it would be overkill, it would only be worthy of a 3rd or 4th level spell slot as it would effectively be a slightly more powerful version of Invisibility (and not even Improved Invis).

[kuscotopia]

"Force effects and abjurations affect an ethereal creature normally. " - Imo this would be plenty of an Achillies heel for the spell if it could be implemented.

This spell is virtually the only way a spellcaster can have a chance against a Fighter, buying them time to get buffed. Making any spellcasting cancel it would be overkill, it would only be worthy of a 3rd or 4th level spell slot as it would effectively be a slightly more powerful version of Invisibility (and not even Improved Invis).

I second this. We are at a point in server history where martial classes are pretty amazing. Let's not nerf casters into oblivion.

[Sypthe]

I second this. We are at a point in server history where martial classes are pretty amazing. Let's not nerf casters into oblivion.

Traditionally, it's an arcanist's problem that, unless buffed, they are relatively weak. When buffed, they can take on pretty much every martial class (their own fault for letting a wizard buff).

I think this is not just a matter of PvP balance, I feel that's a point of lore.

To be honest, I think when you mention "martial classes" I think you're referring to more martial-oriented, yet hybrid classes (i.e. paladin etc). I have both a druid, a paladin and a martial class, and let me tell you that martial classes really don't stand much of a chance when magic gets involved. Not 1-v-1 anyway. Please note I don't oppose that at all - everyone has their role, but I think it's a misconception to say 'martial classes are pretty amazing'.

I've seen at least five times in the last week an arcanist being assaulted full-frontal, without their buffs up, and a singular spell allowed them to walk away unhindered. Which 'walk away' option does a fighter get, exactly?

Of course, I'm fairly well-known for being utterly crap at both optimizing characters as well as just working with NWN2's engine. My experience may well be influenced by just that: being crap.

[Jhickey]

No kidding, unless you want to see fully buffed casters walking around all the time. This is simply not even a feasible fix. Caster (not ready, or prepared) vs anything ready has zero chance of success. Nerfing an escape or a way to even it out is just not going to make it any better. There are already items and spells that can break etherealness already in place.

[Doubtful]

Removing the ability to cast ludicrous amounts of spells then rain death down on all is hardly nerfing an escape route. Casters would still be able to flee.

Fighter v unbuffed caster v buffed caster is a painfully tedious circular argument anyway.

Unbuffed mages should be squishy, buffed mages should be scary. Sitting around the campfire fully buffed should piss of Mystra and/or Azuth or a clerics deity of choice.

[ManUtd4Ever]

Ethereal = Easy Button. Easy Button ≠ Wrong… just easy.

Angus was in a knockdown, drawn out fight with an epic level caster over six months ago. Angus had the upper hand for sure. Then, the caster went Ethereal and began completing his/her buffing process.

Angus stood his ground because, although I - as the player - know what is about to ensue, Angus does not. He has no spellcraft skills. I considered it poor RP form to turn and run. All Angus saw was that which he had seen thousands of times before… another Magic user in action.

After the caster was fully buffed, he/she still had difficulty… but Angus eventually succumbed to SoV spamming after being stunned.

I play casters and melee characters… I do not see this as nerfing the caster classes. Rather, I see this as a forcing function to have caster’s change their tactics. Ethereal would still enable a caster to escape the area and return fully buffed if they so choose.
Hypothetically, a caster need only cast one spell successfully to completely eliminate nearly every melee character on the server: Ethereal.

Cheers!