Spell Points

[Lugwy]

There's a reason this system works in DDO, and that's because it's an MMO; that's not to say that NWN2 PWs aren't, but DDO's more explicit in that purpose. Second, there's pit stops in dungeons to recharge--of which the former are pretty much nonexistent in Sundren--and the focus is pretty much exclusively PvE; the PvP offered in DDO is an afterthought at best, while Sundren tries to give PvP more focus.


EDIT: So in short, I don't think this system would work very well in a PW. Single player, it's a fun mod, but that's a different beast from multiplayer.

[thaelis]

:-/
A well-planned caster already can, or a sorcerer with GMW/Stoneskin, without eating up many slots for the other mentioned spells.
Mirror Image is 2nd level, GMW and displace are third, and stoneskin is 4th level. With that same argument a current or theoretical spellcaster can buff party and have no space for fireballs (also 3rd level).

Ah, yeah sorry if that wasn't very clear. I was referring to a low-level caster there. I remember the first thing the 7th level Wizard did when we first tried out this system was cast Stoneskin on the whole party, using up his entire store of spell points. He then couldn't cast any offensive spells and by the time they reached the "boss" the Stoneskins were long gone and they all died

[Kitsunestume]

Ah, yeah sorry if that wasn't very clear. I was referring to a low-level caster there. I remember the first thing the 7th level Wizard did when we first tried out this system was cast Stoneskin on the whole party, using up his entire store of spell points. He then couldn't cast any offensive spells and by the time they reached the "boss" the Stoneskins were long gone and they all died

Clearly he shoulda invested more points into Int or Wis

[OnyxTigress]

Please no spellpoints.

[Clangeddin]

I have never been a fan of the vancian magic system, it's one of the two mechanics of Dungeons and Dragons (the other one being the whole AB vs AC system) that I would completely overhaul if I were a dev with the skill and the will to do it.

Edit: Of course I'm refering to the computer games based on Dungeons and Dragons like NWN2, I'm well aware that these mechanics have their place in a PnP contest.

[Laurk]

In my PnP games, I use a spell point system, but it works a bit differant than the OP's suggestion.

Wizards still prepare spells as per normal. However. They have enough spell points to cast all their spells + some bonus points for meta-magic feats.

Where the versitility comes in is that they can cast spells directly out of their books, instead of using prepared ones. However the casting time is 1 minute per spell level, so its virtually invalid for combat. This way wizards can stop to cast a "knock" spell at a dungeon door or whatever out of their book.

Meta-magic feats and book casting both still use up SP just like casting a prepared spell however, so you can run out of SP before you've used all your spells for the day. If you cast over your limit, you make a fortitude check. If you suceed you loose 1 temp con point (not restored by restoration magic) for each SP, if you fail, you loose double. So casting over your limit can kill you.

With Clerics, I don't do prepared spells period. To me its insane you'd have to ask a god for things you may not even want. Howver there range of spells is vastly more limited. They are basically allowed "general" spells such as cure for good, and inflict for evil... bless bane, and then any of their "domain" spells. If they try to cast non-domain spells, it costs SP for a spell 1 level higher and takes twice as long to cast. This only make sense as certain gods are more adept at manipulating certain energies. Clerics are allowed to enhance their spells with meta-magic feats just like wizards at the cost of extra SP, and unlike wizards who get their meta-magic feats for free, clerics have to buy some of them with feats. To me this keeps Clerics useful, adds a bit of versitility, but definatly removes the "Cleric Combat Machine" problem. A battle cleric of Tempus may be good at combat, but he won't be a good healer or blaster at all.

But in PnP, I don't use favored souls or sorcers. To me, the wizard who learns magic from spell books is simply to quentesential. I do use Psionics though. To me, that is the equivalent of a sorcerer.

[Raksha]

I thought they worked well on one PW that I saw do the conversion. However, that PW also ran into the issue with spontaneous casters being much less useful, and ended up giving them many more spellpoints to compensate.

While I'd personally love to see it, I think that it's not worth the time and effort for Sundren.

[FoogooFish]

Kill it with fire NO NO NO! *

*Phone post summary. Insert logical, articulate post explaining dissenting views here.

[Mournas]

All casters have spell points already ... they just tend to be in the single digits and allocated for each spell level. IE: 3rd Level Generalist Wizard with 20 Int would have 4 Spell Points for 1st level spells.

[Shadechild]

Instead of making spell points, why not add a little bonus to Non-Generalist Spellcasters? Or make a selection for Each type of Spellcaster.

So Wizards have schools... Maybe a +DC check to their school? Make conjuration specialists have better, longer last Summons for their dedication? or maybe give School Focus have access to unique, not-normally accessible PnP Spells for their classes?

Clerics maybe have more domains or better domains bonuses? Maybe more PnP Spells?

Artifice Domain
Charm Domain
Community Domain
Creation Domain
Darkness Domain
Glory Domain
Liberation Domain
Madness Domain
Nobility Domain
Repose Domain
Rune Domain
Scalykind Domain
Weather Domain

Bards get more PnP spells? Whole list of them Here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/bardSpells.htm


Maybe instead of limiting or trying to buff/nerf things, a route can be taken to add more... uniqueness to them? Not every Wizard has to be the same, and there should be perks to picking a "Unconventional" route outside of Necromancy and Evocation.