Official Paladin Code of Conduct

[Phantom Lamb]

My understanding is that paladins have generally similar codes regardless of their deity. Yes, some things differ pending on portfolios, but there are some guidelines they all must follow.

I think this code is spelled out in a PNP book somewhere. I'd like to suggest that it is extracted and pasted into the Sundren Wiki for the paladin class page.

I found only this so far, but it may be a good start:
"A paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who threaten innocents."
http://frc.wikia.com/wiki/Paladin

[cmosier]

I'll agree that their should be a clear understanding of the Paladin Code. Not necessarily the one that's posted on that wiki however.

[Phantom Lamb]

Yeah, I'm pretty confident our DM team could find a source they like and cite it universally for us. I don't care what code is used, but it would help to see it spelled out.

[Handsomeman]

I used to play a paladin and i remember they used to have some pretty ridiculous rules. They must greet everyone that greets them, they must help anyone who ask for help as long as it's not evil deeds, they must always be working if they are awake. Theres a bunch of other rules too that i forget. To play a paladin properly you had to be more perfect than the gods they worship or face attonement every other day. In the end i just decided to play the paladin how i figure they would behave in my mind and not worry too much about all the rules. If i did something wrong i figured the dm would correct me and come in with priest to make me do some kind of attonement quest. That would have been fine because its part of the paladin rp too.
So i guess what im trying to say is rules are fine, as long as they dont willfully commit an act that is clearly evil, they should be given chance to attone. And advice to people who play as a paladin to play as how they image they would be and not worry too much about the rules. Rping the paladins faults is rp too.

[Laurk]

Something I came up with a while ago for cutomising paladins to their gods. Obviously you'd have to ask the staff before basing a paladin on something like this, but I have never liked the PH Paladin's code of conduct because it actually forces some Paladins to live against the dogma of their gods; im a couple cases such as Ilmater, there are direct contradictions in source between the FR Paladin order guidelines and the PH. To me it makes more sense that each God would have its own Paladin Code based on its own dogma. While some would probably fit the PH such as Tyr or Torm (one a bit more offensive, the other more defensive) others would have "minor" variations. Granted I think no Paladin code should stray far from the PH. Anyway this suggestion adds a bit more realism, RP value and interest to the class, so here are a few of my ideas to get the ball rolling:

Helm

Code of Conduct: A paladin of Helm must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act. Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authroity, though Helm's law is above all. She never abandone's her post, and acts with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth). Law and order are paramount, as is the oath of the watchman who protects her charge with her life. Never hear evil, nor work with, or benifit from it. It will seek to corrupt you and must be crushed swiftly and wholly. Be ever vigilant and make certain no crime goes unpunished with hard, yet fair justice. Never allow softness or mercy to interfier with the law, for when vigilance fails, choas reigns. Only small children may be shown lieniency for their minor infractions until such time as they are old enough to know better.

Association: A paladin of Helm may never travel with or accept aid from any known agent of evil. However she will not abandone her post or charge if evil is introduced into the group or position, though she may try to drive the evil out or destroy it whenever possible.

Multiclassing: Freely as fighters, clerics, didvine champions, arcane devotees, and Purple Dragon Knights

Ilmater

Code of Conduct: A paladin of Ilmater must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act. Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authroity, though Ilmater's law is above all. She must act with compassion, mercy, and honesty (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, nor administering cruel methods of justice), help and heal all who are in need, no matter who they are. Knowing that Ilmater suffers all hurts, always seek to rehibiliate evil first, guiding it toward atonement, and use violence only when all else fails, or when faced with extreme cruelty or absolute evil. Protecting the weak and downtrodden are Paramount, to do so superceeds all other laws. Be prepared to sacrifice your life to defend the weak and end suffering.

Association: A paladin of Ilmater may only associate with or accomany evil in order to protect the innocent and weak from certain death or suffering, or when accompanying a healer of Ilmater in her work. A paladin of ilmater will accept aide from evil for the direct benifit of the poor, sick, or starving, provided there are no binding agreements and donations are given freely.

Multiclass: Freely as clerics, divine champions, divine disciples, and heirophants.

Kelemvor

Code of Conduct: A paladin of Kelemvor must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act. Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authroity, though Kelemvor's law is above all. She must act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), and safeguard the sanctity of death. Suffer no undead to exist. Destroying the undead and bringing those who condone or create such abombanations to justice is paramount. Let no person who defiles the sanctity of the grave for any reason, be it necromancy or tomb robbing go unpunished for his crimes.

Association: A paladin of Kelemvor will never knowingly associate with or recieve aide from anyone who creates or condones the exisitance of undead for any reason. She will ally with or accept the help of evil only when she deems it absolutley neccesary to accomplish the destruction of undead, which is the greatest force of evil.

Multiclass: Paladins of Kelemvor cannot multiclass freely. Once a second class is taken, they may never take another paladin level.

Other gods that would need their own are Azuth, Chauntea, Lathander (maybe), Sune, and possibly Yondalla. Tyr and Torm are pretty "by the book." Though one has a lean toward defense, and the other, offense.

Just my thoughts.

[Doubtful]

There was that 2nd Edition book that made Paladins a pretty much unplayable class. Like hell are we going to use that.

I'm utterly against creating a defining list, as it stands Paladins already have the dubious honour of being the most "You're doing it wrong!" class out there (closely followed by Clerics), expanding on that with more nonense is counter productive.

A huge part of the fun with Paladins is ensuring they reflect their deity - Just as the druids, clerics, rangers and favoured souls of each deity are different so should the Paladins be. Not only that but there are the Order variables - Different orders under each faith will hold their members to different ideals, and the Nation/Culture variable wherein the background of the character might throw up fun and entertaining variables.

Trying to come up with a set of rules and guidelines that cover every Paladin concept from an ultra rigid orthidix Helmite paladin from a militaristic hedgemony to a decadently liberal Sunite paladin from a pacifistic meritocracy is frankly a fools game.

The simple tenants that are listed in the class description, the same as PL's first post, are a solid foundation:

Code of Conduct

A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.

Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
Associates

While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.

Building on this foundation though should fall onto the player, not some rote list.

I strongly encourage anyone playing a Paladin to write up bit of background, focusing on how they became a paladin, who for and how they carry on going about it. Much the same as anyone who wants to play a Warlock needs to figure out their pact.

Work out how your Paladin has promised themselves to good, work out how they further the aims of their church and dieties (ensure you read your dogma!) and have fun - You know the basics, go expand it and enjoy it.

[Mournas]

Actually what needs to be done is the opposite, there are laws in Sundren but why require a Paladin to be Lawful if we can't actively enforce them? You can break 95% of all laws without penalty. "Oh that persons new, but even though they have committed just about every crime you can think of ... whelp ... you better just shake your finger at them and scold them." People actively break the laws because they know there are no consequences.

[Phantom Lamb]

I just don't want to get into trouble by breaking some paladin code that I as a player didn't know about. It sounds like things are going to be looser in that aspect than I've seen previously, which I agree is much better, Doubtful. Thanks-

[Vaelek]

Actually what needs to be done is the opposite, there are laws in Sundren but why require a Paladin to be Lawful if we can't actively enforce them? You can break 95% of all laws without penalty. "Oh that persons new, but even though they have committed just about every crime you can think of ... whelp ... you better just shake your finger at them and scold them." People actively break the laws because they know there are no consequences.

This is the opposite of *nearly* every Paladin I have met in Sundren, as well as the majority of Lawful Good aligned characters in general. A concreted code of conduct is desperately needed, as Paladins seem more apt to strike and kill suspects without attempting to detain, passing permanent judgment before attempts at redemption and charging mindlessly into conflict when a greater good is easily achieved by tactical re-evaluations and temporary flights when no innocent stands to be harmed. Penalty for violation of law does not seem to me to be in question, as law is being enforced and sometimes exaggerated beyond it's actual scope with corporal punishment.

^ This is my personal observation as I've roamed the server since returning, though several of these points fall in line with past incarnations of the goodly champions throughout Sundren's era. Hopefully someone deems 'easily playable' less important than 'sensibly restricted' for a class that runs seemingly rampant in their depiction of justice and law.

[Laurk]

Ya I agree people should try to play paladins closer to their god's dogma, and not worry so much about the PH code of conduct. My list above were suggestions, not rules.

Granted, I think its important to at least try to stay close to the spirit of what a Paladin is supposed to be, otherwise many people would be inclined to play it like a fighter and that could take away from class.

This server strikes me as one which tries to stay close to source, as I discovered when trying to give my cleric of Ilmater the protection domain (which is so obviously Ilmater, that I may some day make a personal trip to the Wizards of the Coast just to punch the guy who decided "Suffering" was a better fit than "Protection") right in the back of his lazy, non-thinking head.

For immersion's sake if nothing else.

[Lotus]

Ten Points of Paladinhood

1. Respect the law and lawful authorities.
2. Help those you can.
3. Protect those who need protection.
4. Do no evil, and associate with no evil.
5. Tolerate no blasphemy against your god or those gods deemed allies of your god.
6. Partake in no excess that will inhibit your ability to execute your god's will.
7. Be relentless in your pursuit of the next worthy quest.
8. Be unerring in your word.
9. Respect your enemy, for in respect is understanding, and in understanding is redemption.
10. Let wrath be merciful in its decisiveness.

[Doubtful]

That's as much poor RP/Playering as it is a poor interpretation of the class.

The trouble is in the dogma of the various Paladin sponsering dieties - Sure, a Paladin of Tyr or Ilmater who goes around stabbinating folk just for being evil is going to run into some serious Fallen Paladin status quite quickly and would have to do some serious repenting, but a militant Paladin of Helm (aptly described by GBX as akin to Space Marines) would probably suffer less hardship for doing the same and find redemption quite easy.

The problem is if you put the Paladin into it's classical hole and allow no deviation you effectively remove massive amounts of enjoyment from playing the class, especially when you stop to consider the whole problem with trying to wedge ideas from an idealised monotheistic society into made up polytheistic fantasy land.

PLUS! randomly killing people for being evil falls afoul of one of the basic previously cited codes: respect legitimate authority. Legitimate authority being both the Authority of Sundren itself and the higher laws of Helm, Tyr etc.

You could also say it might infringe on act with honor.

[cmosier]

There was that 2nd Edition book that made Paladins a pretty much unplayable class. Like hell are we going to use that.

Just had that very conversation in game. That wiki had way too many restrictions. I do, however, believe there needs to be a few things clarified for those who play paladins, at least by the DMs. That being said... I'm not playing a paladin now and have no intention of playing one anytime soon, so, I'll just leave it at that.

[Mournas]

Put it this way, people Metagame knowing that there is no real consequence to breaking the law. They will flagrantly commit unlawful acts, not like I can arrest them since we don't do that in Sundren anymore. What needs to be clearly listed is not some arbitrary code of conducts, because honestly those codes don't mean a thing if you don't have the authority to even act on them.

Furthermore lets be clear on what associate with evil means. Just because someone is evil and happens to be in your party I really don't see how that is a bad thing.

[Lotus]

Furthermore lets be clear on what associate with evil means. Just because someone is evil and happens to be in your party I really don't see how that is a bad thing.

It means what it says. If they're evil, and you know it, they're leaving the party, or you are. If someone has an evil aura, that means they've done evil things to get that aura. You don't trust those people with yourself or the people you're responsible for because they've made a life of taking advantage of other people.