Add Fast Stealth to rogue bonus feats.

[Doubtful]

///Caution, I do not fully, or even really partially, understand coding or codey stuff///

A quick glance at the rangers camouflage feat listing seems to confirm that it is hardcoded as is. It doesn't call a spell script to execute its effects, it simply performs the effect.

So, in short as I understand it; the ranger feat is non modifiable and as such cannot be used as a basis for any further stealth feats.

GBX or Saluus would probably be the ones to say whether an alternate system would be viable, possibly Cornuto or Lotus (My money's on GBX).

Even if it is viable then we also have to consider the time aspect, their are numerous highly important scripting issues and systems that deserve attention, should we pull the very limited scripting time we have from critical systems or from fixing bugged/broken systems in order to add new features.

[thaelis]

*waves the wand of thread resurrection zealously*

Since server is being revamped, could this be considered again?

Yes, I argued against it in the past , but since then I've watched a Rogue party-member creep painfully across the map only to have the enemies shot/hacked to death by the time they reach them. Doesn't seem like much fun...

So long as you make it prerequisite 13+ Rogue levels or something, I don't think it will be unbalancing.

As for Rangers becoming jealous of Rogues' new-found alacrity, I doubt that will happen since Rangers already know they are the supreme beings.

[Kaybrie]

Personally, I'd rather see Rogues get enough power out of stealth to be viable without HIPS the way it is (Basically replacing AC, HP, and Saving throws with your hide and move silently scores, and only offering 6 second windows of vulnerability) Then put even more power on what is arguably one of the most gimmicky and broken abilities in the game.

I was told rogues are getting some love with the update though as things stand.

[thaelis]

Heheh, if they were more tank-like then they wouldn't be a Rogue! Though I did notice the issue you mentioned with my Ranger, as soon as you hit level 17 and get HiPS there's a huge leap in power.

[Kaybrie]

You can give tank-like defenses that would still help a rogue, while maintaining the rogue feel. (Concealment comes to mind.)

HIPS, is just a long winded argument that's been beaten to death countless times.

My main problem with it is it only gives a 6 second window where you can be attacked, basically changing rogue from a high risk/reward class, to a 'you only die if your unfathomably dumb or unlucky' class. The same can be said for ranger late game to be honest, THEY are actually capable of incredible levels of abuse with HIPS.

With rogues already having received a number of buffs lately helping their base game out, I have some concerns about HIPSters seeing more buffs without the gimmick which was only balanced before by their related classes relative weakness's getting some measure of a nerf. (Extending its cooldown to 3-5 rounds comes to mind as a fast nerf without getting rid of it all together, and still maintaining the classes 'in and out' style of combat.)


While I do endorse that ranger and rogue love is gud, and I would love to see stealth-speed mechanics, I really feel like this bares voicing in tandem.

[thaelis]

You can give tank-like defenses that would still help a rogue, while maintaining the rogue feel. (Concealment comes to mind.)

I think if you restored their two missing feats (they get feats at every even level in Pathfinder not at 10, 13, 16, 19 as currently) that would be plenty.

Some of the PF abilities like Offensive Defence, Powerful Sneak, Befuddling Strike etc would help too, but are probably impossible to implement.