Scale Rest Periods to Level

[Phantom Lamb]

One of the reasons the stricter PNP model resting was implemented was to restore the balance between melee and casters at higher levels. I think an unintended consequence is, it's become very painful for casters between level 6 and say... 14ish? Those mid levels wind up being very slow and boring, where you're reduced to using a crossbow for 95% of your action. Honestly - did you roll a wizard so you could use a crossbow?

If the rest period scaled with your level, it would help this out I think. Higher levels, you have extend, persistent, longer duration on spells, more variety, etc. Early on, I think quicker resting would help.

[Fezzik]

I'm all for something like this

[ManUtd4Ever]

If the rest period scaled with your level, it would help this out I think. Higher levels, you have extend, persistent, longer duration on spells, more variety, etc. Early on, I think quicker resting would help.

The "great caster nerfing" came in at least three parts: reduction of spell durations; implementation of a two hour rest rule; and the significant reduction / removal of rest areas.

The results of these actions, from a player's perspective, are that fewer players run casters... and if they do, they ration the buffs they provide to a party.

I would recommend leaving the rest periods as they are... but return spell durations and reintroduce some rest areas. Specifically, I would like to see a sanctuary placed in each major area so that a party would have to work hard to reach it, rest, and return to the fight.

Extend and Persistent spells are nice to have (with the investment of two feats and spell slots) but a caster uses their extended or persistent slots to cast buffs that use to be 1 hr / level, but were reduced to 1 min / level.

I understand the reasons that casters were nerfed, even if I didn't agree with them. But I fear so many actions were taken nearly at once to limit casters that the pendulum swung way to far the other way.

Regardless of what is decided, IMO any change that enables casters would be great.

Cheers!

[sonuvalich]

My name is Sandro of Thay, and I support this message.

[Peridan]

Specifically, I would like to see a sanctuary placed in each major area so that a party would have to work hard to reach it, rest, and return to the fight.

See, I would disagree on this one. I don't think making it easier for people to have extended grind sessions would go within the grain of the changes the staff was trying to make, and would prove counter productive to the fact.

As far as spell durations go, what spells have been reduced to 1 min./level?

I don't think casters need all that much more help right now, because they're doing as casters are intended to do. That is, not buff up themselves and blast things to small pieces for entire dungeons, but allow the character classes that are supposed to be the ones with constant smashing rates to shine.

Wizards, clerics, and everything in between are not supposed to (as far as I understand it, anyway):

a) Be able to level on their own in the first place. They're meant to be party casters, and now that NWN2's artificial bonuses to casters have been removed, are forced to.

b) Have enough buffs to go around, all the time. Rationing is a good thing, and forces people to think in a more strategic manner than the usual 'Buff, blast, rinse, repeat' mentality.

c) Have enough spells, all the time to blast enemies. Yeah, those levels might be a little rough on wizards. But I guarantee wizards do not have it as tough as any non-caster used to, much less classes that were stealth-based. Not only are the drops better than they used to be, but xp allows you to not have to be stuck in these levels for ages on end.

I don't think the pendulum has swung too far. If anything, it's barely over the line, because people have yet to adjust to the changes in how they traditionally think and play characters in a PvM environment.

[nox74]

reintroduce some rest areas.

This.

[Phantom Lamb]

Hah, clerics can't level on their own... good one...

There were definitely a few spell durations adjusted before the rest change came, to make them in line with PNP intentions. They haven't gone back... if I recall them, I'll note them here.

I also agree adding more rest areas is not a good solution. Rest areas signify the end of the day, a significant break in your adventure. They are already being abused, as I see people kill Argyle skeletons en masse', then run to the Dragon Tavern over and over to get their Wall of Fire spells back.

But I will say this: given the loss of Gamespy and the likelihood population won't significantly increase, saying that certain classes should not be able to level on their own does not sound fun to me. We need to adjust to new realities and dump the old mantra, "Well, find a party, it's intended you fight in a group." Because I read the encounter discussions internally, and that's not the case by design.

[thaelis]

I would recommend leaving the rest periods as they are... but return spell durations and reintroduce some rest areas.

Spell durations back to PnP? Yes. More rest areas? Meh. I actually like that its a little harder to grind your way to 20th now, and its much more convenient to join a party.

To name a couple, in Sundren Improved Mage armor is 1 min/level, Shield is 25 seconds/level, not sure about Cleric spells as I don't play one.

I seem to remember the staff already having agreed to fix this at some point, its just probably on a very long list of things that need doing and isn't the most vital thing on said list ><

[Clangeddin]

I don't know if it's feasable, but maybe partial rest could give back all cantrips and a number of spells depending on your concentration skill?
For spontaneous casters it would just increase the number of spells remaining, for others it could just be the first consumed slots.
(CS stands for Concentration skill)
Level 0: all
Level 1: MAX[0; ROUNDOWN(CS/11) + 1]
Level 2: MAX[0; ROUNDOWN(CS/12) + 1]
Level 3: MAX[0; ROUNDOWN(CS/13) + 1]
Level 4: MAX[0; ROUNDOWN(CS/14) + 1]
Level 5: MAX[0; ROUNDOWN(CS/15)]
Level 6: MAX[0; ROUNDOWN(CS/16)]
Level 7: MAX[0; ROUNDOWN(CS/17)]
Level 8: MAX[0; ROUNDOWN(CS/18)]
Level 9: MAX[0; ROUNDOWN(CS/19) - 1]

Dunno, just throwing an idea out there.

[Saulus]

I don't know if it's feasable, but maybe partial rest could give back all cantrips and a number of spells depending on your concentration skill?
For spontaneous casters it would just increase the number of spells remaining, for others it could just be the first consumed slots.
(CS stands for Concentration skill)
Level 0: all
Level 1: MAX[0; ROUNDOWN(CS/11) + 1]
Level 2: MAX[0; ROUNDOWN(CS/12) + 1]
Level 3: MAX[0; ROUNDOWN(CS/13) + 1]
Level 4: MAX[0; ROUNDOWN(CS/14) + 1]
Level 5: MAX[0; ROUNDOWN(CS/15)]
Level 6: MAX[0; ROUNDOWN(CS/16)]
Level 7: MAX[0; ROUNDOWN(CS/17)]
Level 8: MAX[0; ROUNDOWN(CS/18)]
Level 9: MAX[0; ROUNDOWN(CS/19) - 1]

Dunno, just throwing an idea out there.

Not possible. It's all or nothing for spells/feats which is why we have it setup the way it is.

It may be possible to un-nerf some of the spells if there's good justification for it, but we intentionally removed rest areas. I honestly don't feel casters are gimped, most mobs can be taken out with one AoE attack now, and casters can still have DCs on spells that will allow them to dominate almost any fighter if they put 2 seconds of planning into something.

Yes, low level casters will be harder to play, but we also have newbie rest rules for them... and casters should be harder to play at lower levels (at least in my opinion).

[Phantom Lamb]

Sounds good. Maybe I'll chat with you later offline about adjusting the durations of certain spells back, now that we have longer rest periods.

[Clangeddin]

Oh, that's a pity, just one question: are the reserve spellcasting feats available in Sundren?
I don't know because I don't play caster, however, if they are, then they should not have much problem.

[thaelis]

Not possible. It's all or nothing for spells/feats which is why we have it setup the way it is.

Thats a real shame... Is there any chance casters could get something like the reserve feats Kaedrin thought up instead?

E.g. can throw bolts of Xd4 lightning as long as a level X lightning spell is memorised (surely 9d4 is not overpowered when put in the context of a 17+ level character and what they would ordinarily be fighting)

Would make spellcasters more like spellcasters in most scenarios rather than quarterstaff wielding maniacs in desperate search of a campfire!

EDIT: Beaten to the punch!

[Cornuto]

I don't think the pendulum has swung too far. If anything, it's barely over the line, because people have yet to adjust to the changes in how they traditionally think and play characters in a PvM environment.

^This.

I would like to see spell durations returned to PnP, but rest rules don't need to be touched IMO.

[Thief Of Navarre]

^This.

I would like to see spell durations returned to PnP, but rest rules don't need to be touched IMO.

Personally I agree with this. Casting a simple extended mage armour spell & perhaps protection from evil (both level one spells) on a fighter is almost like making him invincible for the majority of encounters. Spellcasters should be frugal with spells; perhaps only enough for one spectacular spell per day ( e.g.creeping doom with my druid). More the gandalf the grey school of magic rather than harry potter if you catch my meaning.