The State of Conjuration

[Memnoch1962]

A quick clarification on undead inside city limits. Sundren Law states that undead summoning is illegal in ALL of Sundren.

Necromantic Animation is defined as the raising of spirits, bodies, or outsider presences through necromantic magics. Unless authorized in writing from the Hands of Mundus for the purpose of research or criminal investigation, necromantic animation is unlawful in all of Sundren. Likewise, the summoning of creatures from evil planes is unlawful in all of Sundren.

With that being said it is a touchy subject on undead summoning with the Hands of Mundus. The following is from the Sundren Wiki on the Hands of Mundus.

The Hands are powerful arcanists, and that power is fully supported by the government in practically any endeavor. The Hands use this governmental pass differently, depending on which type of Hand they may be. A Left hand will use this to defy laws in the name of the government for instance, by summoning an undead when the situation is critical. The Right Hand may use this pass to enforce restrictions harsher than normal. In either case, the Hands have the ability to do what is in the best interests of Sundren.

The Hands also have the ability to outrank almost any member of the governmental forces, be it Red Blade or Legion. A Hand can and will take control of a situation if the need calls for it, and has no qualms about doing so. This being said, there are some limitations on what Hands can do. For instance, an Initiate cannot simply walk up to a Defender Red Blade and demand that he do as the Hand says. With a higher rank comes more responsibility in the Hands, and it is usually Magi or above who are able to order around the higher ranking officers in the Blades or Legion. An Initiate can usually order non officer soldiers without too much difficulty, unless in extreme circumstances.


Now keep in mind that while Hands of Mundus have this amount of leeway granted by the Sundren Government they still have to live in a society that is governed by the law. So just because they may be "above" the law doesnt necessarily mean its cool for them to continually break the law. There are certain factions that maintain a close eye on the doings of all wizards, namely the Church of Helm. So everyone need to keep this in mind when you are roleplaying. Just my thoughts.

[Cornuto]

Just my thoughts.

...and good ones.

[Cornuto]

Also, alter the "Gate" spell so that neutral/good characters can summon something other then a being of evil. Bad enough that greater create undead is min/level, but then good guys can't summon something to beat it because it's illegal, via gate.

Thinking
Good: Planatar
Neutral: Concordant Killer
Evil: Pit Fiend

[Cornuto]

*smacks the toolset around*

[Kitsunestume]

looks snazzy

[lostinspace]

*smacks the toolset around*

Great stuff! An alignment-sensitive Gate offers something for everybody.

Just make sure the planetar doesn't attack you for not having Protection v. Good up

[Chocolate Radio]

One possible off-balance between long-duration summons and short-duration ones may also be the notion that the classes capable of accessing them may offset the initial power intended for the creature used by application of buffs. Granting long-duration summons nonstackable bonuses right off the bat, via pre-equipped items and such (to matching former ability scores, AC bonuses, etc.), and may give them the same use they had before, but less exploitation via spellstacking.

[Doubtful]

The Hands use this governmental pass differently, depending on which type of Hand they may be. A Left hand will use this to defy laws in the name of the government for instance, by summoning an undead when the situation is critical. The Right Hand may use this pass to enforce restrictions harsher than normal. In either case, the Hands have the ability to do what is in the best interests of Sundren.

Now keep in mind that while Hands of Mundus have this amount of leeway granted by the Sundren Government they still have to live in a society that is governed by the law. So just because they may be "above" the law doesnt necessarily mean its cool for them to continually break the law. There are certain factions that maintain a close eye on the doings of all wizards, namely the Church of Helm. So everyone need to keep this in mind when you are roleplaying. Just my thoughts.

A lot of good points in this post.

It's important to remember that having the ability to do something and some leeway in it's application doesn't necessarily mean that it's permitted for that person to do it as they want when they want. A terrible example might be a policeman issued with a firearm - They have permission to use it in certain circumstances but if they were found to be wandering around all the time with it in their hand or using it at the slightest provocation they'd very quickly find themselves no longer a policeman.

The same goes for the Hands. The general population of Sundren is normal and a little bit scared/worried by magic. Sure it's powerful and impressive, but they've all heard the stories. The Hands are aware of this and like any public organization are semi-aware of how they're perceived. Bringing the Hands into disrepute (Yevelian TG I'm looking at you) through recklessness, idiocy or a penchant for public displays of zombieism or blatant evil can earn Hands a quick exit from the association, branding with an anti-magic glyph or a strange disappearance and a shallow grave of their very own.

Then there's the Helmites, recently appointed as a sort of conscious for the Hands. They'll probably take a really dim view of someone regularly trotting around with a zombuddy. They may see it as a dangerously short step from Occasional Summoner of the Undead/Lowerplanar to Threat to the City. They really don't like threats.

Lastly, those pesky paladins, clerics and other people of a good minded persuasion. The Law is no real protection against idealism and it's pretty hard to claim that the State doesn't mind when there's a big sword stuck in you.

[Seheren]

Thinking
Good: Planatar
Neutral: Concordant Killer
Evil: Pit Fiend

I made a post on this, and I suggested a difference based on Law/Chaos for Greater Planar Binding

LG:Planetar
NG: Deva ((Humanoid, so easy to create the look. Colored skin, armor))
CG: Deva ((Humanoid, so easy to create the look. Colored skin, armor))

CN: Grey Slaad or level-boosted Sylph
TN: Random elemental
LN: Inevitable

LE:Barbed Devil ((Using perhaps the bladeling model with different stats))
NE:Barbed Devil ((Using perhaps the bladeling model with different stats))
CE: Hezrou

I suggested Hezrou and Barbed Devil because I think Pit fiend/Balor exceed the power that the spell should have. Now, as for gate.. That could be perfect. A Solar for good, and a Pit Fiend/Balor for evil.

[thaelis]

One possible off-balance between long-duration summons and short-duration ones may also be the notion that the classes capable of accessing them may offset the initial power intended for the creature used by application of buffs. Granting long-duration summons nonstackable bonuses right off the bat, via pre-equipped items and such (to matching former ability scores, AC bonuses, etc.), and may give them the same use they had before, but less exploitation via spellstacking.

I would like to see this! The fact that the long-duration summons can be buffed whereas the shorter ones will just expire and waste all your buffs is the main reason one is so massively more useful than the other.

[Kitsunestume]

Would it be possible to have multiple summons at once, or is that also hardcoded? I've always been a fan of summoning lower-level monsters than the spell's highest to get a squad, seeing as they tend to be fodder anyhow.

[Talleyman99]

There are classes on ther server that have extra pets. The dread master is one of them. I think it's something that is considered to be powerful from neverwinter one. I know I played a sorc with a buffed familiar and summoned powerful summons to wreck area's

Though with the Nerfed pets to classes like druid and ranger I dont see what they cant have there animal and a summon at the same time. seems silly you can only have one or the other when the druids power is based on his animal and ability to convert spells to summon natures ally's

[Kitsunestume]

I seem to remember that it was discussed further back in this thread, that Summon Monster lacks the duration to make buffing a reasonable option: by the time you've cast your stuff, it's about to pop.

The ability to make a bunch of critters that can basically mob might solve the power-problem, and the duration prevents all but a dreadmaster or MoS from jumping people with an army of buffed skeletons. Even they need to make the necromancy tradeoff, and hence have a balance of their own.

I can certainly see there be a problem in implimentation, though, as it would then require a spell-menu, and I know people love those!

[Cornuto]

Though with the Nerfed pets to classes like druid and ranger I dont see what they cant have there animal and a summon at the same time. seems silly you can only have one or the other when the druids power is based on his animal and ability to convert spells to summon natures ally's

AFAIK you've always been able to have both an animal companion and a summon at the same time. Did someone remove this ability?

[Doubtful]

I saw a player dropping a bear swarm on some gnolls a week or so ago and can completely confirm that A: Bear swarms are funny, B: Wildshape bear is much weaker than pet bear and C: You can have a summon and your animal companion at the same time.

I can also confirm it's pretty amusing to see people rage-delete characters over point B.