Suggestion:

[Delexos]

Ok here we go.

I looked at the name of this forum and the tag line and honestly I think this really is the best place for it.

Suggestions We would love to hear what you think would make Sundren a better place. Please posts your suggestions here.

So here is my suggestion of what I think would make Sundren a better place.



All i'm going to ask is that people in this community consider this diagram.

Now I expect this post may well act as troll bait, but you know what, if even 1 person sees this diagram and goes away thinking about it then I honestly don't mind.

The simple premise is that the way you feel effects the way you act, which in turn effects the way others you interact with feel and therefore the way they act, this then circles back around to further influence how you feel, etc...


Attitude affects behaviour


Our attitude about anything comes out in our external behavioural displays. This may appear in the signals we send to other people, for example in smiles, voice tone and use of particular words. It also appears in how we act, and in particular regarding other people.
The reverse is also true, of course, and attitude of others also affects their behaviour.
Behaviour affects others' attitudes

When I do something or send physical signals to you, then it has an effect on your attitude. If I act in an aggressive way towards you, you will interpret this in a certain way. Your attitude is subsequently affected by this, either because you are persuaded by my arguments or because you react to what you may perceive as unreasonable behaviour by me.
And again, the reverse is true. Your behaviour affects my attitudes as I interpret, rightly or wrongly, what you do or signal.
Thus a circle is created. I act, which affects your attitude, which affects your behaviour, which affects my attitude, which affects my actions.
So what?

This is one of the circular behavioural patterns whereby we get stuck in subconscious loops. Recognizing it is the first step to addressing it.
To change the behaviour of others, first watch your own attitude and how it affects your behaviour. Then notice how your behaviour affects other people. You can break the unconscious loop by spotting how the behaviour of others makes you feel and refusing to let it affect your attitude without first censoring this process.




So why do I bother posting this? firstly because it's 6am and I'm tired and I'm feeling like an old man and just wanting to get it out there, I'm 31 so I'm entitled to feel old, though admittedly there are others in this community that are older.


I'm not going to point fingers or name names, I can't because I myself fall into the trap all too often of letting stuff get to me that shouldn't, the problem I personally have these days is that I have played evil characters for so many many years that I honestly sometimes find it hard to tell when another players actions are being directed purely by ic motives. Does this make me a bad player? perhaps. Does it mean I should stop playing Evil? maybe. Problem is I'm petty sure that I am not the only player in the world to get that way when playing an evil character, or perhaps I am, in which case it's quite obviously time to hang up my "Evil heavy weight champion" belt.


All I'm going to say to stop this random post going on even longer than it has, is that the next time you decide to be a dick to another player in Sundren, whether you are just a player, a DM, or a mixture of the two, is to think about that circle at the top of this post, figure out in your mind if what you are about to do is actually something that really is an honest IC action, or if it is something that is possibly being steered in that direction due to some negative emotion that you are feeling as a player, and then consciously choose your following actions more carefully.


At the end of the day guys, servers like Sundren would be much more boring if there weren't players willing to step up to both sides of the good/evil divide.


Time for me to head home from work, so thanks for reading.


All the best,
Rich.

[Gamling]

I really like this post. It expresses a lot of what I feel when I play on Sundren as well.

When I made Adeodatus I was warned by two DMs that I should make an alternative player account because "players will hate you out of character, metagame you and in general be not nice". I didn't think people actually acted like that to each other until I actually started being an evil character.

It sucks and it makes people feel bad. Same goes for any player or character to keep IC actions IC and try to be reasonable with one another.

[ForsakenMustache]

Gold. I haven't had an OOC problem with anyone on Sundren in quite some time, but really this applies to any situation where you're interacting with people, and I so wish more people would understand this. Unfortunately, even when you do understand it, it is SO hard at times to just put your ego to the side and act rationally when you feel antagonized. No one is perfect, but the more people who buy into this idea and try their hardest to put into practice, the better.

[Doubtful]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7532GXPnO8

I agree with Delexos, but can't really think of anything suitable to say other than the link above, and the message that it's all pretendy fun time and Roleplay - The actions of our characters (and to an extent the whole persona we project on the internet) are not a true reflection of ourselves, nor are they intended to strike at the heart of the pupeteer behind the characters they interact with.

Have fun, be nice, have more fun. It's all just a game, the characters your interacting with are no more real/personal than the one you're pretending to be. Don't take it personally.

[Memnoch1962]

Great post Delexos. Can't argue any of it except this. At 31 you shouldn't feel old. Now I feel ancient LOL.

[Jhickey]

Nice, I love it Dex. Could not of made the point better. Although I have never been disliked (To my knowledge) for playing evil. Well said.

[Cornuto]

The lesson here is a good one, and an important thing to keep in mind for players and staff alike.

*thumbs up*

[GodBeastX]

And some people be trying to hog the show, especially that GBX!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BLmPd4W-sY

[thaelis]

Good advice. I've never experienced this sort of bad mojo myself, but then again I play a Good character, so I guess I don't get persecuted and metagamed as often ><

Everyone I have met with has been very sporting regarding PvP and such. (Gamling in particular comes to mind, who has had many opportunities to metagame me but never has, instead trying to IC'ly trick me into revealing my identity, which I find quite admirable)

[and break 12345]

I'm honestly a little appalled, not by this post (I think it's great), but by what some of the members of this community are saying in this thread. The message itself brings up an underlying issue, so I'm just going to lay it out there.

People aren't dicks because people's PCs are evil. People are dicks because people don't like to be trolled by PCs. Those PCs just happen to be evil.

When a PC named after a WoW or Disney meme roll up and, quite in character, say "Yo, why don't you just relax, bro?", it really kills the want to roleplay. Worse when a new player who is in the same area sends me a tell that asks "Did he just say 'yo' and 'bro'? Is that player trolling us? Is he serious?" and I have to explain the situation so said new player doesn't leave the server - this recently happened, two or three days ago. I've yet to see the player log back on.

Behind the curtains, "Team Evil" is being regarded as "Team Troll" - I have yet to be personally really trolled by Team Evil, but I've heard stories from players and DMs alike regarding the situation; and stigmas never create themselves. There's a reason a group of characters (who happen to be evil) have been labeled this, and no one wants to log on and waste their time being messed with and made to look an idiot when they could be elsewhere on the map roleplaying.

I like the circle diagram, and I think it warrants some truth - When 'My Behavior' is to troll, then 'Your Attitude' is going to involve wanting nothing at all to do with me. And who could blame you?

[Saulus]

"Yo, why don't you just relax, bro?"

There's a group of friends who play on the server who have been known to talk like this sometimes ICly. There are a number of people who know already how much I hate this kind of RP (I don't really consider it RP).

That being said, there's only so much we can do to police, and if a new player leaves because of that kind of attitude that's unfortunate but maybe the player is a little too sensitive.

If anyone is going around using modern-speak like this in a mocking manner (and again, I know who you guys are that do it), you can bet you will have a problem with me and the other DMs.

[Cornuto]

I wish player misconduct got reported to the staff instead of everyone just getting upset and leaving.

[Doubtful]

It would be nice if we heard about it before the toys hit the floor.

[Catastrophe]

I wish player misconduct got reported to the staff instead of everyone just getting upset and leaving.

Yeah, it's pretty sad when we have to hear things like this second hand.

[Jhickey]

I have not met this said group, this could be the fact that my play time has droped recently. Never the less I would send a friendly tell stating that it is not the best form to RP in that manner, an if it presists let staff know. I would hate to see a new player leave because of such.