Upcoming Events

Collapse

There are no results that meet this criteria.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Craft Fatigue

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Craft Fatigue

    My suggestion, if anything, would have to be a less vicious cool down time on crafting fatigue. 24 IRL hours per point doesn't seem right to me. 1 point per in game day (2 hours) would still be a viable pace in the end, wouldn't it? I see it like this...

    First, every IC day is 2 hours, correct? So every IRL day is 12 days to the characters. So i'm to believe that if a dwarf digs too much he could be tired for upwards of several months with no relief? I think the people here who have rough jobs IRL will tell you that a hard days work can fade in a few hours, or at most over a long weekend.

    Second, i've spoken to a few people about this, and almost all of them have told me that the cool down system is the reason they don't have crafting/merchant themed characters. That seems really weird to me that the system would be limiting an aspect of RP and leaving you with two options: Combat build or social build. Not with all aspects of crafting, obviously, since not all things incur fatigue. But there doesn't seem to be much value in investing skill points in armor and weapons, or feats because of that.

    Third, it reduces player on player dependency, and through proxy, interaction. If the cool down were changed to 1 point per in game day (2 hours) it would still put the breaks on crafting at a point! But at this point, many people don't seem to want to craft some things, preferring instead to point the other person to NPC shop keepers, who in their own right do not contribute ICly to the story. They're just an OOC concept. Why ask around and find a quality craftsman and then go and RP with that person for several hours when you can derp into the weapon shop in Sundren and spend 10 minutes comparing stock before going back to questing? Is isn't like the shop keep is going to talk back.

    Not that the NPC shop keeps should be taken out or anything, but most of the faction characters appear to be combat builds. I hadn't seen any dedicated craftsmen serving as quarter master or supplier for any of the groups. They all just buy from the same shops. Enemies at the same shop counter. Elves and dwarves hesitant to swing a hammer at a forge or to enchant weapons and armor- things they are otherwise known for.

    I guess that'd be my full argument for the suggestion. This hasn't been a complaint post at all, but a full explanation of why I feel the change would benefit the community. If I don't fully convey my thought process, the gesture of making the suggestion becomes empty- just a comment made in passing with no backing.

    What do you guys think? Is the 24 hour system better, or would the 2 hour system open things up? Would it make things worse?

  • #2
    I like the 24 hours to be honest. It adds to the importance and difficulty of great magic.
    [COLOR=Black][COLOR=Blue][I][B]Landristin Ly[/B][/I][/COLOR][I][B][COLOR=Blue]onstongue[/COLOR][/B][/I]: Ancient, Child of Colibrus. Advisor of Colibrus, Emissary of Sestra, Magistrate of Sestra.

    -[I]Not fond of morning walks on the beach.[/I]
    [/COLOR]

    Comment


    • #3
      I believe the current fatigue system is a way it is to limit how quickly powerful items can be made in Sundren. There are quite a few enchanters actually, you just may not have met them yet or they have too much fatigue to fill your order for another month or so.

      For my part, I think it's fine the way it is. It makes the extra cool gear that has taken multiple crafters months months to make very valuable. Changing the fatigue system as you describe would probably open the flood gates to everyone having uber gear and having even less reason to join a faction.
      Account Name: LuvHandles
      Maneae StrongArm - Devilish Warrior Woman (Active: Finding her place after time in reflection)
      Minael Cel'Anon - Elven Smith, Knight and Wizard (Inactive: seeking clues to lost elven artifacts)
      Aria Duvaine - Wouldn't you like to know . . . (Inactive: Whereabouts unknown)
      Ra'd Malik - Mulhorandi Warrior (Inactive: Off on a mission for the BH)
      Khyron Brinsbane - Fury of Auril (Inactive: Working with Cwn Annwn)
      Chazre Kenner - All around good guy with a penchant for revelry and chasing the ladies. (Deleted: Team Good, returned to Cormyr)

      Comment


      • #4
        You probably won't see much action on this. There are many, many, many crafting suggestions and tweaks that have been proposed, and even embraced by the staff. But the system itself is not really embraced by the staff - it was written by an older dev who no longer is here. The current devs have stated a bunch of times they don't intend to update the system because they would eventually like to replace it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Good points, the two of you. I do agree that extraordinary crafting should be difficult or rare. And I wasn't aware they were going to replace it entirely! But I guess I didn't expect any real action either, just to pose an idea for consideration at a later time.

          Comment


          • #6
            As PL rightly points out our current crafting system was put in place a long time ago by a previous member of staff, it's a large and ponderous beastie all put together by another mans hand.

            The manhours required to overhaul the existing system are many and the available manhours are few, compounded by the complications of working on another mans code and on a system that breaks over the most seemingly trivial things.

            Rather than waste hours of time rejigging the existing system GBX has been working on a new crafting system for quite some time and posted not long ago that it was reasonably complete though sans GUI.

            Time is, as ever, our enemy. Something that someone might say would only take 30-40hrs of dedicated programming time might reasonably take many months or more to achieve thanks to the scant spare hours that can be dedicated to such things.

            What I'm trying to say is that while I can think of a dozen tweaks, fixes, patches and changes I'd love to see go into our existing system, I'd rather see that time go into making a new and friendlier system from scratch.
            It is the greatest of all mistakes to do nothing because you can only do a little - Do what you can.
            Sydney Smith.

            Comment


            • #7
              I did not care for the fatigue either when I first started crafting, but as a very active crafter in game I believe Yev and Snowmane are spot on... The fatigue means a crafter has to prioritize his or her work load while preventing them from spamming a ton of nice kit into the world.

              Also I gain back fatigue points faster than 1 per day. The reason is that your CON modifier accelerates the rate ever so slightly.

              Cheers!
              Cheers!

              Comment


              • #8
                I'll happily agree with the others here: the system as is works well enough.
                Fatigue represents not only effort to craft such items of might and magic, but is also representative of the time that would otherwise be spent crafting such an item. Because I'm just looking for a reason to break out my books (and I've been accused before of liking them too much) here's some math:
                Originally posted by The Books
                Sample item: Mithril Fullplate (Masterwork) (because it's pretty well known)
                Cost:1500 (Fullplate) + 300 (M/W) + 9000 (Mithril heavy armor)
                Total: 10800 gp
                DC taken from Sundren: 31
                Assumed ranks of 20th level crafter: 23
                If the crafter 'takes ten' for simplicity, they will complete the item in:
                (10800 gp)/(31 x 33)sp = 10800/102.3 ~~ 10.5 weeks.
                10.5 weeks that you can't do anything other than smithing, pretty much. For comparion, the Fatigue Cost from crafting the same armor in Sundren is 25; about 3 weeks to bleed off. So, I think my point is that it to me, the fatigue seems to be at about the right rate anyhow, and you don't need to lock your char up at the forge in the mean-time. Go adventure and gain money for your next project instead.

                Cheers,
                Kit

                Frazer Mfg. is a department of Frazer Fabrications, focused on the construction of high-end custom-crafted equipment and gear.
                Also part of Frazer Fabrications are:
                Frazer Armories - focused on resale of prefabricated arms and armorments;
                Frazer Merchantile - specialising in economic analysis and scaleable logistics; and
                Frazer Laboratories - the leading independent R&D for sundrite theory, arcane and mechanical engineering


                James Frazer: Anthropological Gearhead, Techsmith, Arcanaphysisist, Renown Proprietor
                AKA: Artifax Grade B Exigo Corporation Syndicated Associate VP, Professor, Quartermaster of the Schild Whurest-ExiCorp Joint-Operations Facility, and 'Annoying Mechanist'
                Theme: Stil Alive

                Grid vs. Squeegle, not Good vs. Evil

                Distances and travel-times for the Sunderian Peninsula:Free Version 1.0

                Crafting changes are a dead-horse topic, but feel free to ask me about crafting: If I can't answer it, I bet I can direct you to someone who can.
                To those who are interested in making or have crafting-oriented characters, please check out the Fabricator's Collective and how to get FC-certified.
                crafting tutorial.

                Unfortunate truths:
                Intention: [DM > Crafting > Faction Store > Drop > Regular Store]
                Reality: [DM > Faction Store > Drop > Regular Store> Crafting]

                Comment


                • #9
                  That would certainly cover the crafting times, good point! Still, mining mithril is 5 fatigue per unit. If you make a full four, that's... Well, mining isn't anywhere near that tiring. But I guess it could take awhile, just like the time it would take to forge the material. I do still feel bad for people who get halfway through a vein and then it blows up on them though.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Wooden support beams help with this. They can be crafted.
                    Danté Swift: Archmagus and Marshal of Sestra.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Those actually work? I've never gotten them to work.
                      Originally posted by Cornuto
                      Glad everyone's being extra fucking ridiculous today.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I can't say for certain. My understanding is they just have to be in your inventory to function. I can say that I had a collapse without them and then in the same vein the next try with them all went well. All within two days. Maybe someone else has more experience and can give input.
                        Danté Swift: Archmagus and Marshal of Sestra.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I believe enchanting fatigue should be seperate from crafting fatigue. It can take months to make a suite of mithril armor, that's true, but to make it +4? It's one day for every thousand gold in the base price of the enchantment, so that would be sixteen days, because it costs 16,000 gold to make an armor/shield be +4. However, the current system makes it take 50 days for armor, and 40 days for a shield, and you can only make the shield +3, which should actually be 9 days, not 40. I can see that the mining of mithril, the smelting of it, forging it into armor and such would take a month or more for full plate, but I don't think enchanting should take the same amount of time. It's magic, magic doesn't work at a super slow pace like that. If there was a seperate system for enchanting fatigue and crafting fatigue, and enchanting fatigue costs were actually per the pen and paper costs, that would probably work out better.

                          Just my opinion.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Magic requires force of will to use, and imbueing it permanently into an item requires a tremendous amount of it. In PNP, this mental fatigue is represented by XP loss. Since most people would probably become irritable at loosing half a level to make a +4 item, the fatigue system is a half-decent way of representing something similar until the entire system gets replaced.

                            Frazer Mfg. is a department of Frazer Fabrications, focused on the construction of high-end custom-crafted equipment and gear.
                            Also part of Frazer Fabrications are:
                            Frazer Armories - focused on resale of prefabricated arms and armorments;
                            Frazer Merchantile - specialising in economic analysis and scaleable logistics; and
                            Frazer Laboratories - the leading independent R&D for sundrite theory, arcane and mechanical engineering


                            James Frazer: Anthropological Gearhead, Techsmith, Arcanaphysisist, Renown Proprietor
                            AKA: Artifax Grade B Exigo Corporation Syndicated Associate VP, Professor, Quartermaster of the Schild Whurest-ExiCorp Joint-Operations Facility, and 'Annoying Mechanist'
                            Theme: Stil Alive

                            Grid vs. Squeegle, not Good vs. Evil

                            Distances and travel-times for the Sunderian Peninsula:Free Version 1.0

                            Crafting changes are a dead-horse topic, but feel free to ask me about crafting: If I can't answer it, I bet I can direct you to someone who can.
                            To those who are interested in making or have crafting-oriented characters, please check out the Fabricator's Collective and how to get FC-certified.
                            crafting tutorial.

                            Unfortunate truths:
                            Intention: [DM > Crafting > Faction Store > Drop > Regular Store]
                            Reality: [DM > Faction Store > Drop > Regular Store> Crafting]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Except I have been told the server is moving to the Pathfinder system of rules, and Pathfinder no longer requires the expenditure of xp to create magic items. Also, in order to make a +4 suit of armor or shield, or a +4 stat item, it would be the expenditure of 640 xp, not half a level. If I only had to spend 640 xp to make an item like that instead of getting to sit on the side lines for a month and a half, then I"d take the xp every time.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X