Persistent Item Properties

[Mournas]

@Pidcocjn well I think they say low magic in that statement because most people who play DnD are not happy unless its Monte Hall style +5 Vorpal Swords of Greater Omnibane. The Valley of Sundren is not low magic. Take a look at the Seven Seas Campaign setting. You want low magic that is low magic. Buy-able +4 Items = non low magic setting. In a low magic world a +4 Item would almost be a once in a life time of the entire setting that one would come into exsistence.

[Satoshi]

Well, all I am saying is that there are +4 Stat Items, +4 Enchanted Items, Even items that give you feats like oh say Divine Might. There are even Ioun Stones that have Stackable +1 to a stat.

Yes, there are some gems in the a few faction stores that are really good. I don't really like the idea of planning your entire character to fit into a specific faction simply because it is the only place you can get certain items, though. In addition, the really good items are designed for level 15 or better players have the hefty faction requirement of 15-20,000 which is out of the range of most average players who haven't been around for several, several months at the very least (if you don't count people capable of and willing to facegrind gold to donate on top of facegrinding gold for the items).

I don't think the best items should be thrown around and rain from the sky, but I think that they are currently hardly accessible to the average player. Yesterday, when this thread first came up I was talking with Xaayne and he mentioned the original topic-starter: the Ring of Freedom of Movement he made. He has been pretty much the only person who made one, and before he made it everyone assumed it was a persistent freedom of movement like the description of the enchant read. No one had made one in the roughly four years the system had been in place. Ever since he made one, I can't think of anyone else who has. This highlighted to me that even if there was access to the items that mundane classes need, if they weren't reasonably accessible it would still be under-utilized.

Spells like FoM and Deathward were made excessively over powered in 3rd edition. Having a persisted effect of these spells on is well ... over powered. (Not that there is a persisted Deathward item etc just giving an example of something that is over powered)

I hate(d) level drain with the fiery passion of a thousand suns, and believe that the change from Negative Plane Protection to Death Ward was easily the best change from 2nd to 3rd edition. Completely offtopic, but I felt the need to state it. In every pen and paper game I play, my first big investment is in finding an item that makes me immune to negative levels/energy drain (then go for disease and poison immunity).

Sundren is a low magic server with an emphasis on the community.

I haven't seen a low magic setting done well since Dark Sun, and I'm not even sure that you could say that it's low magic at it's height.

[Lothoir]

@Pidcocjn well I think they say low magic in that statement because most people who play DnD are not happy unless its Monte Hall style +5 Vorpal Swords of Greater Omnibane. The Valley of Sundren is not low magic. Take a look at the Seven Seas Campaign setting. You want low magic that is low magic. Buy-able +4 Items = non low magic setting. In a low magic world a +4 Item would almost be a once in a life time of the entire setting that one would come into exsistence.

All of your characters are PrC'd spellcasters. Items mean nothing to you.

[Mournas]

Yesterday, when this thread first came up I was talking with Xaayne and he mentioned the original topic-starter: the Ring of Freedom of Movement he made. He has been pretty much the only person who made one, and before he made it everyone assumed it was a persistent freedom of movement like the description of the enchant read. No one had made one in the roughly four years the system had been in place. Ever since he made one, I can't think of anyone else who has. This highlighted to me that even if there was access to the items that mundane classes need, if they weren't reasonably accessible it would still be under-utilized.

I would make a Ring of Freedom of Movement, but I am not going to go grovel and plead with a DM to POSSIBLY get a quest to POSSIBLY get me a snake skin or two. 21 Minutes of FoM = 2 periods of rest in Sundren. It would also go good for any mundane class of optional usable items. Same with a Gem of True Seeing (Of which I currently have all that is needed to craft both items but the DM items.)

Also on another note.

There was a spell in second edition called Negative Plane Protection 1 turn (1 minute) per caster level which protected you from Negative Energy and Level Drain.

[Satoshi]

I recall Negative Plane Protection being a grand total of 5 rounds at every level. I'm not sure when that changed. Or are you talking about the version that lasted 1 turn per caster level, but ended upon being struck by a negative energy effect?

[[DM] Grinning Death]

This entire thread has turned into a #9 Dead Horse topic.

Saulus hath spoken on the matter, and that's really all there is to it. However, I know the community feels a need to speak on the matter further, and so I'll be closing this thread by the end of the workday (approx. 5 hours from now) unless another DM see's fit to shut it down first or it takes a nasty tone.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[Root]

Here is why people call Sundren a Low-Magic world:

That could say that Sundren is a Pancake Server, but the lack of pancakes in it would kind of suggest that such is a bit off.

Just as the fact that favoured souls, Clerics and mages are the primary classes would suggest against low-magic.

Irony is, throwing gear in that goes up to +5 without needing DM help and easier access to items that give the more essential buffs would probably reduce the amounts of said classes, overall lowering the feel of the world being super-high magic.

[Dragor]

A few things I want to point out.

The sundren wiki is editable by anyone who creates an account for it, I've done it myself. There is some very outdated information on there that I would update except I think that changes to portions of it should be done by the staff since alot of it is the Sundren Rules and Sundren Info sections.

NWN2 was not designed around the DM client like NWN was, it was designed around the single player campaign, which is why there are several spells that were made up by obsidion to make the campaign playable by caster classes, as well as spells like Death Ward which were modified to do more than they did in NWN.

When your on the server there is such a thing as sending tells to get parties set up, however with an avg population of 16 there is going to be times when there is no lvl overlap and no-one wants to switch charachters. (people will switch charachters)

Alot is made of mechanical OPness, and there is built in mechanical OPness in D&D and NWN2, I am opposed to removal of the first and in favor of changes to decrease the effect of the second.

I think the encounter rebalance will go a long way to resolving a lot of issues I have with this server and I hope it will give the dev staff time to focus on making areas more dynamic (aka takes skills to get through sections) and creatign new area's for lower and mid level ranges.

[Mournas]

All of your characters are PrC'd spellcasters. Items mean nothing to you.

I lol at this statement. Sure items aren't as valuable to a caster as they are to mundane classes, trust me I know because I have plenty of none caster characters also. Also if you think leveling an arcane trickster is so easy (try being 5 levels lower as a rogue and 3 lower as a caster, you pretty much suck until around 14th level ish then you stop being terrible and move into the bad category) with poopy items then you go right ahead and make one. Mythradin had to suck up RP trickle for a lot of levels. Jericho is Straight Cleric and he has terrible items also and he sucks. Hashan was created to basically do my own thing with because RP with Mythradin only got him Perma killed which I seem to remember clearly it being stated it would be unfair to do so, yet it was being pushed for anyways.

Decado is tied to the hip of casters, he is Mundane and I have determined that is his fate. Though no caster will ever be able to wreck face as much as Decado does.

[pidcocjn]

That could say that Sundren is a Pancake Server, but the lack of pancakes in it would kind of suggest that such is a bit off.

I was just answering his question as to why this server could be referred to as a Low-Magic server. I was not addressing whether the former statement is correct.

[Saulus]

I consider it low magic because of this: The maximum bonus I can apply to an item is +20... the most you might see on a rare item is +5... most spells can't push past +5 and we've gimped a number that could or would be of greater benefit.

You can debate till the cows come home about how PnPs low magic stacks against NWN2, how another server does it, etc... But when it comes down to it, it's just a word "Low magic". If you want to call it medium in your head, no one is stopping you. Our standpoint is it's low magic, perhaps high fantasy though.

Again, just words, without a whole lot of meaning other than a general idea of loot availability. Also I will note that redoing all loot tables (or making some for the vast amount of areas that have none) is another priority for our large coming update. So what you will expect to see is more +1, +2 items dropping, and +3 or +4 becoming more common on certain bosses.

The drop chance won't be very high, but it will be there, and there will start be a circulation of more powerful items that aren't rep restricted. The best items will always go in this order:

DM > Crafting > Faction Store > Drop > Regular Store

This really isn't changing what's currently available so much as increasing what's available. Crafting is another topic altogether which is why there is a larger focus on better items for Faction Stores right now.

[Satoshi]

The only thing you could do better in that post, Saulus, is give us an ETA. Awesome to hear things directly.

[ManUtd4Ever]

The best items will always go in this order:

DM > Crafting > Faction Store > Drop > Regular Store.

Super appropriate IMO.

The only comment I would like to make before this thread is closed is that I would enjoy playing a Melee Toon soooooo much more if potions (consumerables) were not so damn expensive.

I can purchase a Heal Potion (11th level) for over 800 gp that can restore 110 HP. My cleric uses three spell slots to keep three Greater Restoration spells on him at all times. Each costs him about 150 gp. He has saved many a team mate with these spells, and I am capable of restoring a lot more than 110 HP.

Any improvements to gear is nice, but simply lowering the cost and availability of consumables will go along way to making Melee Toons more viable. Hell... most faction stores don't even have critical heal pots. And some have no heal pots at all.

Cheers!

[Saulus]

ETAs are meaningless when you deal with a volunteer group. My work varies, and thus so does my time... and admittedly I enjoy other games other than NWN2 (if I didn't I wouldn't be playing NWN2 still).

What is most important to me is not releasing a half baked update but giving everyone something meaningful that will have the impact the staff desires. I could say it would be a stretch to take another 6 months on the items I mentioned (as in, likely a lot less time).... But things change, and it's not like our staff is available to work 9-5 on Sundren.

[Mournas]

What is most important to me is not releasing a half baked update but giving everyone something meaningful that will have the impact the staff desires. I could say it would be a stretch to take another 6 months on the items I mentioned (as in, likely a lot less time).... But things change, and it's not like our staff is available to work 9-5 on Sundren.

We all know that twice baked potatoes are so much better than half baked. If you have never had a twice baked potato then I am sorry for you (You being the current reader of this post). =)