Frenzied Berserker

[Kaizen]

It was cool when they took away the useless (then, anyways) feat for a requirement.

It wasn't cool when new, stricter requirements were thrown up on Frenzied Berserker.

I would go into a lengthly intelligent sounding post about how it only hurts and cuts down on the options for the few brave souls who roll something other than a cleric/favored soul/caster, furthering melee/magic powergaps,etc etc etc but I'm much too tired.

Suggestion: Make the FB requirements like they are in the NWN2 handbook.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Cant say I agree, I like the current requirements because they make sense.

Power attack - Check!
Cleave - Check!
Ability to rage - Check!

The requirements dont seem that steep at all to me. Especially when your rewarded with +24 to damage while swinging your greataxe about!

*n.b. Its not like you even have to buy the feats since you get them from barbarian levels anyway!

[Kaybrie]

*Thinks FB needs to have the proper PnP Deathless Frenzy in the first place if it's going to have the PnP requirements.*

[Gorri]

I don't think you should have to be a Barbarian to to take levels in FB... meaning rage shouldn't be a prerequisite. Barbarians and Berserkers are culturally, behaviorally, and genetically very different.

Barbarian -- Watch the "Conan" movies
Berserker -- Watch "Erik the Viking" (Erik has buddy berserkers)

...and yes, I do get all my history, psychology, and biology information from movies!

G

[Thief Of Navarre]

But why would a rank and file disciplined soldier break rank and go crazy? Short answer - NO! Thats a barbarians job and im quite happy with the way the staff have dealt with it (no ass kissing intended).

*edit* Hell its only 4 levels of barbarian to qualify or one if you an orc with the racial talent!

[Dragor]

But why would a rank and file disciplined soldier break rank and go crazy?

A fighter is not necissarily a rank and file soldier.

[roguethree]

But why would a rank and file disciplined soldier break rank and go crazy?

Because being a mundane class on a level 20+ server sucks really bad and the stress of it all makes them snap and go savage.

That is, it's hard enough playing a mundane class here; we should be taking steps to accommodate them, not hinder them.

[Torgar]

Because being a mundane class on a level 20+ server sucks really bad and the stress of it all makes them snap and go savage.

That is, it's hard enough playing a mundane class here; we should be taking steps to accommodate them, not hinder them.

I fully agree with rogue here. Although I don't disagree with the need to rage for frenzied berserker, I still agree with the sentiment it should not be made difficult to get into the melee prestiges. There's already enough of a gap of power, that making it more difficult to prestige as a melee merely strengthens the classes already considered too powerful.

[Kangleton]

Thief,

If you're having trouble conceptualizing why Frenzy should not require Rage, I understand. Frenzy comes off as a more powerful, more advanced Rage - it seems intuitive that one would be a prerequisite for the other. However, in an attempt to rationalize it, try thinking of Rage and Frenzy as different methodologies. Perhaps Rage involves channeling emotion inward in a more controlled fashion, while Frenzy involves channeling it outward in a massive release. This is kind of reflected in the ability effects.

My attempt.

[Seheren]

You don't need to be a wild born chaotic Barbarian to have some serious anger issues, and be able to channel that into an awesome display of wanton destruction. You just need to be the right type of person, who can just snap and go on a super human rampage.

[Redjack]

I was under the impression that the rage/barb requirement for Berserkers had been rolled back and was no longer required. Am I confused?

[Raksha]

Respectfully submitted: This probably wouldn't be such an issue, if barbarian weren't so terrible. On a low-magic server, its redeeming values can be counted on one hand and measure up far under those of the fighter.

[Kaybrie]

Barbarian Store makes them crazy powerful, see; Lagnar. Dwarf Barbarian who out DPS/Tanks Fighter-Weaponmasters.

[roguethree]

That's a product of being a dwarven barbarian with the dwarven DR feats. Any other barbarian would get flattened, and I'm not convinced it would out-tank a properly built fighter/WM.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Thief,

If you're having trouble conceptualizing why Frenzy should not require Rage, I understand. Frenzy comes off as a more powerful, more advanced Rage - it seems intuitive that one would be a prerequisite for the other. However, in an attempt to rationalize it, try thinking of Rage and Frenzy as different methodologies. Perhaps Rage involves channeling emotion inward in a more controlled fashion, while Frenzy involves channeling it outward in a massive release. This is kind of reflected in the ability effects.

My attempt.

That makes more sense to me.

*edit* on roguethree comment about builds; When did prestige classes involve become more powerful? Usually a straight core class is more powerful and takes less effort, IMO prestige classes are just for flavour and FB is a flavour that fits the barbarian well!