Possible suggestion for new PRC class?

[Lucidity]

So today, I was showing a battle buddy of mine all of the content on the server and forums.. he seemed pretty interested in the diversity of the classes and prestige classes. After talking to him about it, he got me thinking, which eventually ended up as 3 gb worth of 3.5 and earlier related D&D books. (I've been a PnP DM for many years, plus I enjoy it as fun personal reading material.)

Anyway, I stumbled onto an interesting PRC class in the "Defenders of the Faith: A Guidebook to Clerics and Paladins" accessory book, and on page 72 is the Templar prestige class. Looks pretty promising and the abilities seem like they could correlate from PnP to on here fairly decently (in my opinion anyway).

I noticed that the Warpriest prestige class is available as a choice, and this PRC is also listed in the same book as the Templar. If what I'm suggesting sounds promising, I can email anyone who wants more information on the class the actual book itself, if desired. I spoke to another player on the server before typing this and I was under the impression that the DM's/developers are absent and that there's some sort of a development push after speaking with him/her.. hopefully I interpreted that correctly, because I am completely unaware of it.

If this doesn't fly, just ignore me and I'll scrutinize Triadic Knight for a little while longer.. that one looks pretty promising too.

[Kaizen]

Triadic Knight for a little while longer.. that one looks pretty promising too.

no, no and god no.

Just ... avoid the class and save yourself the heartbreak and tear soaked pillows when you sleep.

Trust me on this

[Lucidity]

Oh?

Now I'm interested to hear why..

[Kaizen]

It sounds cool on paper, but if you go 15 paladin/5 TK, you hurt yourself. Alot.


The level 5 Great Smite feat gives you a smite of 15x2 = 30, where as a level 20 paladin gets you 20. So 10 damage, that seems pretty cool.

But those 5 levels you miss out on paladin are your 4th level spells. Death Ward, Freedom of Movement and most importantly - Holy Sword. I think you end up with only one level 4 slot.

You also miss out on 5 levels of extra Lay on Hand levels to multiply with your Charisma.

The TK options - Immune to fear (you get that), Immune to disease (you get that), Discern Lies (lol), Shout (bigger lol) and the only good one is Immune to Blindness, but the payoff isnt at all worth it as there are Potions of Remove blindness.

Will edit as I remember more.

[Lucidity]

Heh, no need.. I pretty much already had in mind what you typed, but I wasn't sure if there wasn't something else I was aware of.. Discern Lies and Shout definitely are a laugh.. how exactly is DL even implemented? (Too lazy to look on server, sorry. :P )

[Kaizen]

+50 to your sense motive for one round/level? So ... 5 rounds, 30 seconds? Seems like a lot, until you realize you only use DL in RP mode, and RP mode takes a helluva lot more time than 30 seconds. Some people take that long to type out a response.

[greypawn]

Whats a paladin?


It would be cool to get more good aligned PrCs here. Could you post info on the templar here for all to see?

[Lucidity]

Yeah, I agree absolutely.

How do you feel about the Templar class I suggested? Do you think it would hold well if transcribed to NWN?

[Kaeldorn]

I considered templar at one point, but decided that it didn't add anything really unique to the game. Basically, if you play a paladin/fighter or paladin/divine champion, you can already build something that is statistically pretty close to what a Templar has to offer. And being a templar kind of guy with such a build is perfectly viable as far as RP is concerned as well.

As for the Triadic Knight; Discern lies is meant to be used for questioning, not as some sort of buff. For example when speaking under oath in court, or other such circumstances. If the supposed liar refuses to speak during the effect of the spell, it can be concluded that he is probably not being truthful and at the very least not forthcoming/reliable. And when dealing with player to player situations, I'd think that the player on the receiving end should be mature enough to take that -50 penalty to his bluff even if the spell has worn off already. If he specifically RP's that he doesn't answer a question during the spell's effect though.. all the more reason for the Triadic Knight to be suspicious of him.

That aside, I've thought about giving the Triadic Knight a second look in order to make it blend better with the paladin class. At present, it's a better choice for a cleric/divine champion. However, the to-do list from the meeting a while back needs to be addressed first. I won't propose any changes to the Triadic Knight internally before that, but I'm open to suggestions. Just like MoMF forms will be getting a second look after the encounter and rest changes.

[roguethree]

The best choice for a Triadic Knight is Paladin 10 / Divine Champion 5 / Triadic Knight 5 to capitalize on Great Smite. Otherwise, you're just watering down a cleric, which is actually a good class.

You lose a ton of spell casting, gain immunity to blind, lose 5 levels of lay on Hands, but you'll smite at +30 v. Evil, +10 v. Infidels. You'll have 3 smites a day v. evil, 1 v. infidels, which is fewer smites than a Paladin 20. The feats would be, assuming a human ...

1: Toughness, Weapon Focus
3: Tower Shield Proficiency
6: Power Attack
9: Divine Might
12: Divine Shield
15: Improved Crit
18: Sacred Vengeance

This is built with Triad faction gear in mind. With Extra Smiting boots from the Triad store, you get a total of 8 smites a day, 5 of which are +30 v. evil, 3 of which are +10 v. Chaotic and Evil. This is compared against a Paladin 20, which would have 7 smites at +20 v. Evil.

What you don't have are 4th level spells or useful spell durations, which means no Death Ward, no Draconic Might, no Holy Sword. From a combat/ac perspective, that's missing out on 2d6 divine damage a hit and 4 ac, 4 strength, 4 constitution, and 4 charisma. A friendly caster can offset that loss, but if you're standing alone against evil (and trust me, you will), that's a tough loss to take.

Basically, you're the typical Paladin glass cannon, immune to Word of Faith, with less durability and DPS. If Triadic Knight levels stacked for purposes of smiting and Lay on Hands, you'd have a viable alternative with +40 smites v. evil, +20 v. Chaos/Evil and full LoH. You'd give up 4th level spell slots (which are hugely important) but gain serious smite damage output, which is a fair trade, I think.

[Kaeldorn]

Your smite evil actually suffers for taking divine champion levels. So you'd end up with +20 vs evil and +10 vs infidel. Less in a single hit, but more opportunities to apply it. The advantage to mixing Triadic Knight with a cleric is that you get a fair number of passive immunities that can't be dispelled in any way and a higher base AB. Not saying it's better than going full cleric, but I think the prestige class does reward clerics more than it rewards paladins.

Lay on Hands adding up would probably be a fair addition without going overboard. Something else that crossed my mind was giving Extra Smiting for free because the original class actually did improve your default smite and gave additional smites per day, which is something we sadly can't do because smite is hardcoded afaik.

[roguethree]

Divine Champion levels stack with Paladin levels for purposes of Smite Evil, but not vice versa. That is, a 10 paladin / 10 Divine Champion smites at +20 v. Evil, +10 v. Infidels. A Paladin 10 / DC 5 / TK 5, as the class currently is, gives +30 v. evil, +10 v. Infidels.

[Kaeldorn]

Ah, alright.. that's strange. Never knew it worked like that in NWN2.

[roguethree]

The 3.5 version of Triadic Knight stacks with other levels that grant a smiting ability. Any way this could be implemented?

Ah, alright.. that's strange. Never knew it worked like that in NWN2.

It's an approximation of the 3.5 rule that lets Divine Champions combine Smite Evil and Smite Infidel into a single action.

[Kaeldorn]

the original class actually did improve your default smite and gave additional smites per day, which is something we sadly can't do because smite is hardcoded afaik.

Nope. Hardcoded. Things like Lay On Hands and Barbarian Rage work on spell scripts, hence we're able to alter those.