Blind Fight

[Dragor]

When Blinding Spittle was removed Spirit Shamans were allowed relevels to choose new spells. I would imagine Favored Souls would be allowed the same courtesy. If Blindness is removed there would be no problem from that standpoint.

Wasnt saying there would be...just pointing out the work that would have to be put in if it was done

[Kaizen]

With Blind Fight and Blindess bugged in general, would it be easier to code/change the spell that blinds instead?

Put a DC save on Word of Faith for the blindness effect.

This will let Clerics have a high DC, but they only get what ... maybe 2, if they really like it and choose the other 'must have' spells? It's easy enough to chug 2 potions of cure blindness.

FS will have their 6, but with a lower DC.

On a side note: Poor blinding spittle

[roguethree]

Removing blindness would be fine with me. It'd also curb the solo farming that FS and Clerics currently enjoy.

[Dragor]

With Blind Fight and Blindess bugged in general, would it be easier to code/change the spell that blinds instead?

Put a DC save on Word of Faith for the blindness effect.

This will let Clerics have a high DC, but they only get what ... maybe 2, if they really like it and choose the other 'must have' spells? It's easy enough to chug 2 potions of cure blindness.

FS will have their 6, but with a lower DC.

On a side note: Poor blinding spittle

The problem is adding the save really doesnt change anything....

[Kaizen]

how's that?

[Dragor]

Depending on which save you would choose to use....

I would say Fort?

I'd have to say the max fort save a High Fort build (non-caster) will see is 24-25 (around there somewhere)

The spell DC's on a cleric/FS with their DC affecting attribute at only 20 is 24 without any other modifications

Arcane Casters even with buffs arent all that high on Fort saves

Divine casters are up at 40+ on fort saves buffed and would just SR it anyway


so while the fighter now has a 5%ish chance to resist (not counting auto succeeds) everything pretty much stays the same

FS's could just spam it and bone anyone that isnt a divine caster with SR

Clerics would have a 85-95% success chance

and stuff like that

not much difference from now

[Lothoir]

While adding a save would be an improvement I agree with Dragor that it doesn't do nearly enough.

Now replace the blindness effect with a deafness effect and things get interesting..

[roguethree]

I'm not following the math. If a fighter has a fort save of 24 and the WoF DC is 30, then the fighter will make the save 75% of the time and not get blinded. Adding a fortitude save would make a huge impact.

[Dragor]

I'm not following the math. If a fighter has a fort save of 24 and the WoF DC is 30, then the fighter will make the save 75% of the time and not get blinded. Adding a fortitude save would make a huge impact.

Your right...my math is off...suspiciously it has been consistantly off of late....

of course it really doesnt fix the problem even with the revised percentiles

[Kaizen]

I don't see how it doesn't? The problem is blinding. Put a Fort DC on it, and fighters have a chance instead of 0% chance.

Fighters, contrary to popular belief, don't want a nerf across the board to bring everyone to their level. There is a sort of IC/OOC pride that a fighter type makes it to level 20, and has to work and RP and plan just a little bit more than most everyone else.

We just want a chance, instead of a shit ton of IWIN/ULOSE buttons against the class, which a no-save WoF is.

This is a d20 system, and putting things into 'always' and 'never' just ruins the balance and offers no chance at all, which is shitty. Removing blindness is almost the same thing - a DC save is a nice even ground that most spells use for a reason.

A fort save would help immensely. A FS might have 6 WoF, but with such a low DC you have a shot to pass the first two blasts.

A cleric might prep one or two, which given the right item (potion of remove blindness), shouldn't be too hard if you plan accordingly.

[Cornuto]

Clearly we should just remove fighters from the game and have everyone to be favored souls.

Then no-one can complain about imbalances.

(I kid.)

[Lothoir]

Depending on how you build your favored soul you might still be able to beat people in fights. The obvious solution is to remove everything and make everyone human commoners with 10 in every stat.

[Dragor]

I don't see how it doesn't? The problem is blinding. Put a Fort DC on it, and fighters have a chance instead of 0% chance.

Fighters, contrary to popular belief, don't want a nerf across the board to bring everyone to their level. There is a sort of IC/OOC pride that a fighter type makes it to level 20, and has to work and RP and plan just a little bit more than most everyone else.

We just want a chance, instead of a shit ton of IWIN/ULOSE buttons against the class, which a no-save WoF is.

This is a d20 system, and putting things into 'always' and 'never' just ruins the balance and offers no chance at all, which is shitty. Removing blindness is almost the same thing - a DC save is a nice even ground that most spells use for a reason.

A fort save would help immensely. A FS might have 6 WoF, but with such a low DC you have a shot to pass the first two blasts.

A cleric might prep one or two, which given the right item (potion of remove blindness), shouldn't be too hard if you plan accordingly.

It doesnt fix anything in terms of blindness/blindfight...

Also considering that word of faith is a word infused with the power of a god...a save kindof takes away from that awe inspiring fact

It is practical regardless of blindness/blindfight working properly though...

of course shouldnt all saveless spells get a save?

I'm not trying to be an ass I just enjoy playing devils advocate

[roguethree]

It doesnt fix anything in terms of blindness/blindfight...

Also considering that word of faith is a word infused with the power of a god...a save kindof takes away from that awe inspiring fact

It is practical regardless of blindness/blindfight working properly though...

of course shouldnt all saveless spells get a save?

I'm not trying to be an ass I just enjoy playing devils advocate

The conversation has moved on from fixing Blindfight and moved on to the blindness mechanic in general.

The biggest offender is Word of Faith. It's a 7th level spell that blinds every hostile in range with no save. It's OP garbage. Give it a saving throw and it's suddenly surmountable. The biggest reason one would suggest making Blindfight grant immunity to blindness is to counter this spell.

Also, every cleric spell is words infused with the power of a god.

Not all saveless spells are as crippling as WoF.

[Lothoir]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyWord.htm

Or make it so the blindness doesn't work unless the target is a lower level than you. Higher levels are not affected at all.

Also, the blindness should be 2d4 rounds. Not a round per caster level.