Rework Resting

[Dragor]

I don't think it would require developers to rework dungeons. It would only require characters to rework how they tackle those dungeons. The only areas I could realistically see needing a tweak is the Viridale. Add a rest place in the Great Dead Oak camp area and then one or two rooms that can be barricaded in the Ogre caves and there's no problem. The Mossclaw Meet itself already has a rest area and the other two areas are right next to the rest area. Even if no more rest areas are added then it still wouldn't be too much of a problem, it would just be a bit more difficult.

Other encounter areas are simple one-shots that can be easily planned for.

Not quite...The mossdale if you intend to run the temples would require rest areas outside of the temples...and the mossdale graveyard/swamp areas would need an area accessable for them...The Duergar dungeon is not QUITE a one shot deal and would need at least one safe point added...I've never been in the viridale crypt so I dont know how big it is...the Spittlefist areas wouldnt matter due to the newb rules...adding a rest area for the sestra lizards would have to be considered due to the size of the sestra mine as under this idealology you wouldnt be able to rest just anywhere in the mine...then you would have to bring in the vagrancy arguements

and of course there is Cold Climb

Argyle you could just set the tavern as the rest area

Doing the entire Veritas dungeon is also not a one shot deal for its entire lvl range spectrum

same for the Cartel


Then there is that one cave between the Mossdale graveyard and the citadel

I'm sure I could go on....


But from an encounter balancing standpoint I dont see any changes as necissary for this

[Lothoir]

The Cold Climb already has a rest point and Argyle has world transitions all over.

As much as I love living in the Sestra Caves and killing lizards I don't think discourage the 2+ hour grind sessions would be a major problem.

The rest of your points are entirely valid. I still believe increasing the resting restrictions would be an overall benefit for the server as it would require casters to seriously consider their spell selection and heavily discourage spamming spells.

The biggest, easiest thing that could be right now though would be to change resting to require 30 seconds and also fade the screen to black. I believe PnP allows you a listen check at -10 or -20 versus the Move Silently of another character to wake up.

[Dragor]

@Lothoir

While it would be a massive improvement to the current system it will not be easy to pull off

Scripting something with that many varibles is never easy as the more things you try to accomplish in the code the more Murphy gets imbedded in there and creates unexpected output

Bugtesting sucks

[Kaeldorn]

Changing rest durations should only take a 2da edit. It's set to 5 seconds across the board by default, and can be changed for each character level. So, for instance, we could keep newbie levels at 5 seconds and change it to 30 seconds for everyone else. (though it can't be varied by class, as someone suggested somewhere)

FadeToBlack is a default script function we can just call in the on rested script. It already has failsafe checks included, so hardly any testing is needed.

[Doubtful]

I'd certainly be in favour of having it take longer to rest, so long as we can package it with the slogan: 'Longer Rest Durations - Give Brutal Murder a Chance'

[Kaeldorn]

While the screen is faded to black, we can put a KICK ME sign over the resting character's head. But only if they are a cleric or favoured soul.

[Doubtful]

Winner

[Raksha]

Okay. First, I'd like to start by setting what I think should be the overriding purpose of any rest changes.

1. Enhance Roleplay and Fun

Okay, this is the Big Number One thing, right here. Take realism, murder it brutally and toss it out the window. Realism has no place in this discussion, in my humble opinion. There is no way to simulate an eight-hour rest in a way that is not utterly boring. If there is time spent staring at the screen, it should not be wasted time. Changes are to make things more fun.

However, this is not to say that shorter durations of the 'rest effect' are more beneficial. On the contrary, having a longer rest effect means that poor characters who emote out *stands watch* can actually play doing so, instead of having the resting character done and recasting before they can pound out the emote. As a frequent 'stands-watcher' who tries to ration rests, it is a bit disappointing not being able to play the steadfast guardian. ^_^

Likewise, adding to the FEAR of gank during resting is good. It is not necessarily a good thing for it to actually happen... but if people are afraid of it, and see resting as having a possible cost or leaving them vulnerable, this adds to roleplay opportunities. Some of my favorite occasions have come when characters cannot rest -- say, because it's a DM event -- and so have to fight their way through monsters and challenges with dwindling resources. This is good. It should be encouraged.

So, with that down, here are my proposed changes -- given that The Big Man himself has already weighed in that there will be no huge increase in Time Between Rests.

• Increase the duration of the Resting effect to thirty seconds, with Dexterity dropping to zero + flatfooted for the duration. Five rounds may as well be forever, unless a character has a high innate DR or obscenely good static armor class, if we're talking about Battle Resting. Even accouting for fifteen or twenty seconds to set hostile and get in position, that's a great big good golden shot for anyone who wants it. At the same time, it is not punitively long. I am against screen blackout because it negates any RP opportunities, emotes, et cetera, and I think there is already a danger of too much 'dead time'. Black screen is a player penalty, not a character one. Pleeaaase, let us emote that we're praying or studying or picking our nose! *kitten eyes.*
• Add a confirmation box (are you sure you want to rest? y/n) then make resting an irreversible act. Once you commit to it, you're out for thirty seconds. This serves two purposes. First, it eliminates the accidental R. We've all done it. We all hate it. It's a huge OOC penalty for something that a character would not have been ICly able to do, and it is near some other vital buttons like the default key for target. Secondly, it guarantees the period of opportunity for stabbing / sabotoge / traplaying.
• Reduce the period of armor equip to roughly half its current value. So about one round for a plain shirt, two rounds for light armor, three for medium / heavy. Interestingly, this is about the value used for the 'newbie period' and it feels much less punitive. The reason that you see everyone with a Restore effect burning it when resting instead of removing the armor is that spending more than a minute doing nothing is dull. There is only a tiny gameplay advantage to casting Restore after resting, but a HUGE quality of life one. So let's leave it as a viable option, but reduce its relative value. When taken with the above changes, this will mean
  • Heavy Armor fighters take about as long as before to rest.
  • Heavy Armor divine casters have 30 seconds of time advantage, down from a minute or so, but still have to spend a spell, and
  • Light Armor folks also have 30 seconds or so of time advantage, don't have to spend a spell.
  
  

The net effect is that resting for everyone is a significant commitment. If monsters come, you're semi-hosed unless you have enough HP to weather the storm and then run / fight back at the end of the rest. However, as demonstrated, it doesn't lengthen the process very much, especially for non-divine heavy-armor folks. It just shifts more weight away from the time spent putting on and taking off armor, and puts it instead towards the actual resting period.

I'm deliberately not addressing the proposals regarding survivals and 'safe' spots, as I think that's another seperate issue. ^_^

[GodBeastX]

Let's just get rid of EK's and make armor changing instant

No, but seriously, I'm not sure how longer rest times add to fun and play?

[Doubtful]

They open up opportunities for assassins and the like to get in and get assassinating*

Longer resting and shorter armour changing doesn't change much for a lot of people (as Raksha has ably explained), but does change the dynamic of resting and open up new avenues - which is good.



*Other types of rest based murder may exist.

[Kaeldorn]

It also mechanically prohibits people from resting to memorise (different) spells near instantly in order to deal with situations they weren't prepared for.

[Lilene Jora]

I must say I like the idea of a longer period of vulnerability while resting...and potentially changing out of 0AC clothing not taking 18 seconds, or whatever it does now >.<.

[Kaeldorn]

potentially changing out of 0AC clothing not taking 18 seconds, or whatever it does now >.<.

Might be addressed sooner or later.

[Talleyman99]

@ root Sorry I have played everything under the sun on sundren BUT a cleric and I have zero issue with rest timer or armor timer. They do not bother me. If you have issue's with a player resting in front of you to reprep spells to pwn you attack then while are resting. Cause well If there was gonna be a fight the RP should have happened that you both know it was gonna happen. If your gonna let the bad RP happen that they get to reprep in front of you, you have no one to blame but yourself.

[grant]

Even if we take "realism" into account and I am all for taking it behind the barn and putting a bullet in its brain and feeding it to the hogs in the case of changing armour...

Say you are changing in/out of your armour and a pack of 1-100,000 of monster X comes around the corner, realism says you stop pick up your weapon and fight in what ever stage of dress your in, if your caught by surprise it says bash the first ones head in with what ever you have in your hands at the moment.

This is not even possible now, you are stuck with a timer or you hit the <esc> key and take a sudden "magical" (because there is nothing realistic about it) free equip penalty. Since D&D or NWN does not have decent partial or mix and match armour, or improvised weaponry rules, you are stuck with this all or nothing that is a worse reflection of "realism" than the default.

As it stands, it is like a table top DM pulling out a stopwatch and saying your PC can not do anything while X time elapses, when in reality PnP play tends to just advance the clock past these events 95% of the time anyway.

Even though many players say in the forums "I wait for the non EK's types to re-equip their armour" or "I wait for people to zone/re-log" in practice for each one who says that there is at least one who's already disappearing over the hill by the time you are ready.