On In-game Death.

[grant]

When in the fugue - you must wait to be revived.
If you are NOT REVIVED within 24 hours (1 day), you are allowed to respawn thanks to the shadow.
24 Hours (1 day ) meaninng literally that.. I don't mean Game Play Time.

No favoritism for anyone, if a DM watches you slit your throat to avoid arrest. He is probly going to Perma you. If you are caught and questioned of being Black Hand, and they decided to execute you, then bye bye.

Setting a Real Time period for anything punishes players who can play frequently and favours those who can/do not or those who have a lot of toons to play. This is the problem with crafting fatigue now.

You can also be caught or your body found BY the Black Hand. I personally do not want to wake up in the Citadel and have to fight my way back to civilisation. Not many PC's know about the teleportation system they use and would have to try the long walk out through the Mossdale alone. This is assuming your not left to wake in a room full of Banedead over and over. You could also be their sacrifice...

[crazyjerren]

I will say that I am another player who enjoys his perma death a lot, but also enjoys getting into his character. The first RP server I played on religiously, back on NWN, I loved to play evil characters. Nothing brought me more joy playing an evil character than to get a group of the 'goodies' so pissed off that they formed a party to come and finish me off, ending that character for good. But what I hated seeing was my willingness to perma the PC and than all the 'evil' I had done completely erased the next week, or day, by the players I had dropped in the process walking around like my PC had never even made a blip on their life. In fact, I remember one RP in general were I took another PC hostage in an attempt to escape. A group of PC's had surrounded me and I was holding my blade to the characters neck when one of the higher level PC's goes "Do it, I don't care, I will just raise her after I've killed you and disposed of your body."

But I digress and thought I would like to say something in regards to the +8 LA vampires and the worry of PvP and perma death.

One of the biggest reasons in PnP that vampires have such a high LA is that they are immune to most basic ways that 'perma-death' would occur on a server. When a vamp goes to 0, it mist forms and goes back to its coffin to rise again another day. In a perma-death server, I would expect vampires to avoid this rule unless killed via sunlight the safety of their coffin, etc. In fact, I think someone who plays a vampire on a server with that kind of system would feel that a +8 LA is complete worth every point.

Just like many people in real life would take up an opportunity to be a vampire: It provides a loop hole around that whole nasty 'perma-death' thing

[Kaizen]

Which you just happen to have the ability to oneshot.
Can't get over griping about this still, when it's been proven Dain is the real menace.

I had my oldest character perma'd awhile back, and I've been character jumping since.
Do I resent the DMs for deciding it was time for him to go?
Not in the least. It made the character's actions far more interesting, and I can honestly say I thoroughly enjoyed the last bouts of RP with that character more than I had any number of the sessions before it.
I lost a character I worked on for about two, three years, but it was great RP in the process. Can't say I had any other wishes for 'em but to try and provide that.

I do actually agree with Dain though.
As much as I appreciate the realism perma-death gives, CvC punishments are rarely very fair, especially with the way we have things set up now. While he might be defending the poor citizens vampires'll take a bite into, personally, I'm defending the poor innocent vampires he'll be snacking on with his afternoon tea.

Let's be honest, deMoin, dain has a 50/50 (if not less) chance against Clive, and a healthy chance of snacking the other vampires. He's also a paladin that's been played exclusively for around a year now...

...and the only one of maybe 2-3 PCs (Ahriman, James, and Hastian come to mind - 2 MTs and an Arcane Sorc of Candlekeep) who can reliably merc a vampire. There are more then enough vamps running around to tag team his holy ass, and there's not much he can do about it because...

...no one else can reliably kill an ECL 8 vampire without Lay on Hands which is tied to a specific class which is tied to a specific alignment which is tied to a little-wiggle-room style of roleplay.

Not to mention that many people have this sick desire to see Paladins fall RPly and most of the PC population is against them.

I'm pretty sure vampires have more friends then the 2-3 Paladins do.

Everyone else? Vampires eat. its what happens when your level 20-21 goes up against a level 28-30.

[Vaelek]

I'll try not to pull this too far off-topic, and say that I'll just have to disagree with you, blurry.

Vampires are without question more powered than the average PC.
But this comes with a long line of drawbacks, the first and foremost being the lack of RP.
Suggesting that a Paladin has less friends than one of the vampires..
Well, that's entirely a problem with that Paladin's personality.
I assure you, they have far more wiggle room RPwise than what the vampires are given. Deity specific, faction specific and limited alignment choice in a fairly empty faction already.

You've played a Drow, you know how it goes with the amazing lack of RP once people know IC. This is always true for the vampires.
CvC can be discussed for a long time as well, with little resolution.
Sufice to say, I haven't personally seen a vampire fight without a reliable undead-killer in a long time.
But that could be my limited vantage point.

[Talleyman99]

I'd leave vamps out of this. Hate to break it to you but your vamp pc's are faily responable players who don't just go around murdering everyone and everything cause they can. Also cause we have things like vamps that is why all my ideas are a punishment that can effect everyone ((loss of gold loss of xp loss of lvl)) these ideas also incorpreated a spell no cleric cast cause it's pointless to use right now, reserection for any reason right now.

Now you want a PC permed do it yourself. If you felt that a conflict and the rp around it was so good, or created a no way out point perm your own PC make a great rp post about it share it with the server. You do not have to have something built into the game to get the point across that if you kill me i might not be back. That said it takes a mature player to do such a thing with our the game or a DM telling them your permed.

[crazyjerren]

Now you want a PC permed do it yourself. If you felt that a conflict and the rp around it was so good, or created a no way out point perm your own PC make a great rp post about it share it with the server. You do not have to have something built into the game to get the point across that if you kill me i might not be back. That said it takes a mature player to do such a thing with our the game or a DM telling them your permed.

I agree, to some extent. But the problem here lies in the fact that there are players and characters out there, because of their free will to choose it, might have a god complex a brewing.

Also, it has that feel of "It was the players choice, not that the PC actually died. If the player really wanted, he could just bring the character back." Which, happens, mind you. I have not been around enough on Sundren to experience it here, but I have seen it happen on other servers where a player "Perma's" his toon, just to bring it back again in a months time (maybe after he got bored of his new character, idk) and then proceeds to "perma" it again.

If you leave it up to the players to perma their toons, few people are going to actually do it. And that's what causes the rift between the "Death-fearing PC's" and the "We can just raise them" or "How many times have you died now?" pc's.

[Starrizer]

I really.. really.. reallllyyyy.. Hope that if a system like I explained was implemented.... that people who were of high level.. wouldn't find any reason just to CvC people... and abuse that system... In all honesty - If you kill a person and this type of system is in play, you should ask for his concent within the next 2 - 3 days before just ganking him >.>

That just made me sad face

[Kangleton]

I've only really had two characters in, uh, twice as many years? Yeah, I've been here that long. For the latter half, I've really only played one character: Pyras. Despite my playstyle and the devotion I commit to developing a single character at a time, I wouldn't even blink at a permadeath system. I've gotten involved in a lot of CvC, and I don't actually remember losing at all, because I only tended to fight when I knew I could win. I was always cautious, always tried to stack the odds, etcetera. This is how I would be fighting if death were permanent, and so nothing will change if it becomes permanent.

If you're playing your character realistically, not much should really change with the introduction of permadeath. If you're playing an idiot or an easily hated person, maybe things will change for you and you will have a shorter lifespan, but hey -- that makes perfect freaking sense. Idiots and public enemies do have shorter lifespans.

What I would like to see is the lifepoint system of Necrosis whereby dying lowers your total, and that total raises over time spent IG, RPing. However, I think that the higher the CR of the PC that kills you, the lower the toll on your lifepoints should be. Inversely, though, the lower the CR of the PC that kills you, the higher the toll on your lifepoints. This means that if you get murked by a high-level character, the consequence isn't holyshitdrastic. No need to worry about high-level griefers.

I would also be in favour of losing significant faction rep when killed by members of an enemy faction, while the killer gains rep. Again, if you are killed by a higher CR, your penalty (and their reward) is less. If you are killed by a lower CR, your penalty (and their reward) is greater. If the rep-change is significant enough, this might make people give pause, as losing will involve being demoted and shamed by your peers.

[Philosopher]

Of all the perma-death options out there, I'm digging kangleton's (and by extension, those who originally posted the idea) suggestion the most. I'll never like perma-death, but I think the above is a system I could live with.

[Lothoir]

If you're playing your character realistically, not much should really change with the introduction of permadeath. If you're playing an idiot or an easily hated person, maybe things will change for you and you will have a shorter lifespan, but hey -- that makes perfect freaking sense. Idiots and public enemies do have shorter lifespans.

Being killed by someone with a CR equal to yours costs you 20 'life points', out of a total of 100. For every level that your killer has on you the death points are reduced by 1, to a minimum of 5 or so?

I'm really digging this idea, but would suggest that Raise Dead and Resurrection be incorporated into it somehow, either reducing or eliminating the death penalty when cast by PC's.

[Kaizen]

I've only really had two characters in, uh, twice as many years? Yeah, I've been here that long. For the latter half, I've really only played one character: Pyras. Despite my playstyle and the devotion I commit to developing a single character at a time, I wouldn't even blink at a permadeath system. I've gotten involved in a lot of CvC, and I don't actually remember losing at all, because I only tended to fight when I knew I could win. I was always cautious, always tried to stack the odds, etcetera. This is how I would be fighting if death were permanent, and so nothing will change if it becomes permanent.

If you're playing your character realistically, not much should really change with the introduction of permadeath. If you're playing an idiot or an easily hated person, maybe things will change for you and you will have a shorter lifespan, but hey -- that makes perfect freaking sense. Idiots and public enemies do have shorter lifespans.

What I would like to see is the lifepoint system of Necrosis whereby dying lowers your total, and that total raises over time spent IG, RPing. However, I think that the higher the CR of the PC that kills you, the lower the toll on your lifepoints should be. Inversely, though, the lower the CR of the PC that kills you, the higher the toll on your lifepoints. This means that if you get murked by a high-level character, the consequence isn't holyshitdrastic. No need to worry about high-level griefers.

I would also be in favour of losing significant faction rep when killed by members of an enemy faction, while the killer gains rep. Again, if you are killed by a higher CR, your penalty (and their reward) is less. If you are killed by a lower CR, your penalty (and their reward) is greater. If the rep-change is significant enough, this might make people give pause, as losing will involve being demoted and shamed by your peers.

*thumbs up*

Caveat: I don't know if this is possible, or at all fair, all things considered ... but a level 13 cleric (word of faith lol) would wreck level 20 fighter Shepard in CvC. Maybe add or reduce CR from certain classes depending on how powerful they are in CvC? IE, Cleric/FS/Wiz/Sorc/Druid/EK count as a little bit higher on the CR chart so when they wreck that poor fighter or swashbuckler, he doesn't lose as much.

I already see a lot of problems with this, but I thought I'd toss it out there to consider.

[Dirty Goblin]

While retaining the initial cost of two bloodstones I hope

I dig the idea.
Not only does it work towards improving the death system which had a lot of work already put into it and which has been shown to be functional, it gives the death system a needed tweak. That tweak is added roleplay significance.

This is a roleplay server after all

[Starrizer]

Kangle = What a Twist!


No but really I like Kangles added suggestion for CvC.
However - I also think Kaizens suggestion is perfectly logical.
Perhaps add a power of level for each class?

Fighter = 2
Mage = 4

Mage + Fighter = Your an idiot. LOL

No but really -

Fighter = 2
Frenzied Berserker = *6 (* = Times) if combined with a Melee class.
Fighter + Frenzied Berserker = 12

Anyone get what I am saying? :x

[Talleyman99]

that idea sounds fair enough I would suppose. I suppose i dont see the need for perm form cvc type stuff cause well. when your responable you dont stand around the same place every night waiting for a fight then tell all your friends how you dies 50 times. That to me seems that problem. Also there was a time when you could just never be found never be raised and there was no pvp Unless as pointed out the odds where so stacked againt your target that you could not loose. So I dont see a problem with current system I see a problem with peoples ooc views on it and inabilitys to deal with it. Back on track so far kang's idea with those small tweeks looks best to me.

[Gamling]

I think a better solution would be to have a system in place that will be biased in perming chars. Like this one server I played on, you had a vitality bar. And everytime you died it would go down. It would fill up slowly over time, but if it got to 0 you were permed. No resurrections, nothing. You were done for.

*Didn't read the previous posts because I am cool*