The Triumvirate Store (is terribad)

[roguethree]

i dont mind not having alot of uber stuff in veritas store

BWAAAAAAhahahahahahahahahaha!

[Kaizen]

i dont mind not having alot of uber stuff in veritas store

+4 dodge, +4 dex boots. you could have nothing else in your store, and it would still be enough.

[Subal]

Yes you would be correct, its to bad you need to be maxed in rep for that item, which atm there is maby two active players for the veritas, its taken me nearly two years to get 9k rep, which is no where near what i need to even get that +4/+4 item at level 20. So for nearly two years there has not been one item worth buying from my faction cept crafting scehmatics.

I have issues with farming flags and dont care to grind rep

[roguethree]

I have issues with farming flags and dont care to grind rep

The flags and donation boxes are there specifically to address slow reputation gain. You choosing not to employ all the tools available is in no way an argument against the quality of gear in the Veritas store, which, by the way, is better than you're letting on.

[Torgar]

I do agree, the Legion store is more the adequate for the people who would join, it does an excellent job of catering to most of the classes that would join. Fighters get great full plate and a tower shield that spits on any other shield in the game, while laughing at said shield. Rogues and bards get armor that compliments their natural abilities nicely, clerics get Clinicus full plate, which although not super awesome, is very RP appropiate and over all, isn't half bad, I know my own clerics both intend to wear it, as they are both legion. Even sorcs and wizzy's are covered, so really, as long as you aren't a nature class, you are good to go. I mean, they even have samurai gear.

I will say though, I do not feel the love from the warden store. Now, I wear full plate, so I don't ever expect to have any good faction full plate, that would just be weird. However, the warden general store as "no" gear for a spirit shaman, where as the Banite store has about three pieces for spirit shamans "only" that I am pretty sure they stole from the wardens which is the reason that the warden store has none. In a past update, Barbarian gear got added, and the gear really wasn't half bad. Now, I'm also in the vanguard, which is basically Rangers and druids, and all the bows prove that. The only bows in that store I can use is the green bow, as anything of higher rank is druid/ranger only then Ranger only. I believe that every faction should cater to the classes that would join, and for the most part, this has been done exceedingly well by the staff and devs. I just wanted to throw in my own (I'm sure it's going to be called this by others, so I'll call it what it is myself) whining and complaining about my faction store in, and just suggest the last class that would be part of wardens get at least a little love/like/acknowledgement of existence, so the wardens can make some gear that are shaman appropiate, and maybe make some Silvanus oriented gear, because all the deities that have gear in the warden store are all wrath of nature, IE Umberlee, Auril, and Talos, but nothing for Silvanus, the primary deity of all druids and the Tree father, basically the primary god of all nature. Not saying anything good, or anything OP, just something so that people don't think the wardens are only for the wrath of nature people, because the rest of us in the wardens think they are smelly and are dressed funny Thanks for reading this overlong rant everyone, hope my point wasn't lost in the haze of just-woke-up typing. Great job staff!

[Saulus]

Stores are always going to be tweaked... it's taken years to get them where they are now, especially with the tie-in to our faction system.

Some of the gear in the faction stores should be exceedingly hard to get... that's quite the point. This is offset by the fact that DM reward items usually equal or rival faction stores. This is just how we like to distribute our more powerful loot.

Now having said that, managing dozens of stores with different items for different classes is a lot of work... and well it takes time to make additions. I'd like to think that for what we have now, it's pretty damn impressive.

[Lollercide]

I'd like to think that for what we have now, it's pretty damn impressive.

It really is. Despite all the suggestions, complaints, and everything in between, the faction system and stores are amazingly well done. It may never be perfect, but Sundren has only been getting closer to that. To this day, it's the only server I've donated to, and still the only one I believe deserves donation.

The only real flaw (and this may be really nit-picky) is that Sundren needs to have 100% less Canadian ownership.

[roguethree]

*snicker, snicker*

[Saulus]

Whenever I run it on American it seems to inflate artificially and then pop like a bubble.

It really is. Despite all the suggestions, complaints, and everything in between, the faction system and stores are amazingly well done. It may never be perfect, but Sundren has only been getting closer to that. To this day, it's the only server I've donated to, and still the only one I believe deserves donation.

The only real flaw (and this may be really nit-picky) is that Sundren needs to have 100% less Canadian ownership.

[roguethree]

Well played.

Update that server, yet?

[Intrepid42]

Now having said that, managing dozens of stores with different items for different classes is a lot of work... and well it takes time to make additions. I'd like to think that for what we have now, it's pretty damn impressive.

It is impressive.

A great deal of time and commitment has clearly gone into the store and faction mechanics, as with everything else in Sundren. I enjoy the complex systems you have here.

I do not think we as players should expect anything near MMO-like levels of balance. It would be wasteful of time to even attempt, given the sheer number of possible combinations of gear and PC.

My main personal concern is the relative power of PC-crafted gear, compared to gear obtained by gaining reputation gear or loot.

I believe that reputation may become more readily acquired in the future, but high ranks will always be extremely difficult to attain. This is good, and the top-end store items should be extremely powerful. Such levels of reputation seem to require multiple DM rewards and massive amounts of time in-game.

More of a concern is the gear for the lower reputation tiers, as the bulk of players will be able to outfit their main PC with this, given time.

The closer store items get to those that can be crafted, the less "heroic" a path crafting is. If PC's cannot match the goods that NPC crafters can make and sell in the stores, then crafting ceases to be a "heroic" activity for PC's as you will always be out-shone by the vendor standing behind a counter.

This is why I believe the store items almost always have three or more properties, so they do not serve as a better base for enchanting than a crafted item.

I am aware that Sundren is aiming to replace it's crafting mechanics, but I would ask that this is kept in mind when store changes are planned. Adding new items to a store is far easier than modifying crafting mechanics.

For example, if +2 items are made more easily obtained via faction store, then you could consider adjusting loot tables to drop a few more ingredients for +2 enchants (gems being the main limiting factor at present).

[Intrepid42]

(( double post, edited out ))

[Saulus]

Unfortunately crafting is now a separate issue. Because of the technical challenges we face, we must completely remake the system, and given our priorities on development it is a ways away.

For now rather than waste dev time on something we will 'completely rip out' (which is a big waste), I rather invest that time on more quests that involve players in the lore and help to give larger faction rep rewards aside from DM quests.

It also should feel rewarding to a player because they've reached rank 2 or 3 in their faction and suddenly beyond just loot and the acknowledgement of their rank... they will actually get better quests from their NPC superiors, etc.

We have other much more complex designs similar to MMOs which deal with faction territory control but again these things take a lot of time, especially given limitations in the NWN2 engine. I can't see leaving the engine anytime soon as nothing else fills the gap and won't for the foreseeable future, so I am patient.

[Seheren]

I can't see leaving the engine anytime soon as nothing else fills the gap and won't for the foreseeable future, so I am patient.

And without speaking for others I will say that despite my ADD, and impatient tendencies, I will wait happily for the things to come. For I know that it will be great. I am excited that there will be a new crafting system as well as constantly changing faction stores.