Resting 2.0

[Saulus]

Sundren isn't a low magic server. The main plot evolves around resurecting a dead god and NPCs that instantly kill you by staring. That's high magic stuff and hindering level progression wouldn't help, imo. If you want low magic, then level has to be capped at around 10 max. For fighters or for casters.
That said...this suggestion isn't about high or low magic. It's about doing what the Resting system was meant to do in the first place and that it fails at doing so.

Saulus, you said one game day is 2 RL hours. Make it 12 In Game hours.

Now what you're proposing affects vampires, daily scripts and run-time events.. and other things dependent on our time cycle... That choice for the game hour duration was done with care.

[Fezzik]

Also, it seems Sundren players are really good at suggesting things which are 1) incredibly hard to implement in aurora or
2) time consuming to implement for little pay-off

You can look at that two ways Saulus, either we like thinking big, or we're just asses that want to make life miserable

* runs away giggling *

[Saulus]

You can look at that two ways Saulus, either we like thinking big, or we're just asses that want to make life miserable

* runs away giggling *

If we really had a vote I doubt any player would want us to spend 20 hours on project Y for benefit X when that same time could be spent fixing bug Z... adding area B... making new quests from npc C...

This is the kind of stuff we are working on, content. Not arbitrarily editing systems which tie into dozens of scripts in the mod. If you really think stuff like this is more worthwhile to the gaming experience than that, I should see it here in the volume of players requesting these kinds of changes.

Personally though I think this kind of resting implementation is more Draconian than I'm willing to accept. There was never a memo that said fighters should be on par with casters across the board, at all level ranges. It's silly.

Most fighters could take out a mage flat in 2 seconds before they get any buffs out. If that's the only way you're 'stronger'. Then do it. We never said it's against the rules.

For the sake of information in this thread, there are other things we are considering to give melee characters an edge, such as more effective poisons... which is certainly a lot more worthwhile as a time investment for us than such extensive changes to resting.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Raman a cleric?

The only caster's I consistantly see soloing are Karn and Katalina(?) Zephyr(?) and they both die.

Seb is lvl 18 now and can barely solo stuff he gets no xp for, talk about OP

on the other hand he can buff a lvl 14 fighter and they can survive fights in the mossdale

The rare and mysterious party buffer does exist you just have to ask around that fire that literally everyone on the server can be standing around at any given time.

Casters are not nearly as OP on this server as everyone seems to think (for the dungeons) From what I can tell the dungeons are built for a buffer, a melee char, and a third guy. A buffer and a melee char can do just fine.

Modifying the spell progression would render making a multi-class caster pointless and decrease the amount of effective buffers on the server making it even harder for melee's to do things than it already is

And the resting Idea would cause much the same issue unless every dungeon on the server was rebalanced making it almost a cakewalk

Everything I have ran into is balanced for a buffer, a buffed melee char, and an either/or char except for the veritas which is balanced for a bunch of buffed AC tanks and a warlock with binding blast. (Personally I'd rather run the Veritas because it takes about 5 Chars to pull off, although the deeper mossdale does as well apparently)

Sorry these kind of requests make me cranky, I apologize if I have offended anyone

To be fair thats a bit off since with my druid I could solo; bar my animal companion and a couple of summons here and there to do the big tanking.
This was back when Schild mountains was the grinding spot and the veritas were the game though..
I could solo every single tier up to the bosses virtually without harm and still get a nice healthy 96xp a kill, of course seen as he is capped its pretty much worthless now but I do still occassionally dust him off and buff everyone in my war party beyond demi-god status.

[Peridan]

For the sake of information in this thread, there are other things we are considering to give melee characters an edge, such as more effective poisons...

This. Please, please this.

[nezzerscape]

Most of the things coming down the pipe in the suggestion list I classify as 'balance issues'. And the reality is, it will never be balanced because it's DND.
.....
Also, it seems Sundren players are really good at suggesting things which are 1) incredibly hard to implement in aurora or
2) time consuming to implement for little pay-off

I understand and perhaps it has been a bad day but when you quote someone you are targeting them. If you posted the same comments without quoting they would be be taken as "me in the wrong" and that the general idea was not feasible.

I may not speak for most but we love this world and all that has gone and is going into it... just do not liked to feel like idiots for saying something would be cool. It would be cool to have a T1 connection to my house but for the money ( or time to get the money) I think food on the table is better spent... call me a dreamer for wanting one but do not make me feel like an idiot.

And thus ends the daily wine by Nezzerscape
Please stay tooned for words from our sponsor...

[MadSeer]

Now what you're proposing affects vampires, daily scripts and run-time events.. and other things dependent on our time cycle... That choice for the game hour duration was done with care.

Erh...how so ?
I think you misunderstood me, I'm not suggesting to make days twice as fast. I was suggesting to change the 1 rest per In Game day to 2 rests per In Game day.

[Dragor]

Yeah, Raman's a cleric. And he can solo places higher levels can't because they're not clerics, and Raman can go on a killing spree, rest, go on another and so on. Which is why I'm suggesting this.

You might be right saying casters aren't OP, I don't know for wizards and druids. But when you can just regain your spells every 10 minutes, playing a cleric myself I know for a fact they certainly are. Compared to the other classes, that is.

A balanced build like Raman is going to have advantages over both a straight Cleric or a straight Barbarian. It is a powerfull build and it should be able to take and give damage in large amounts. That being said a straight fighter of the same level buffed by a cleric of the same level would own him even if the cleric did not get involved after the buffing. The game mechanics arent really designed to balance between builds like Raman and a traditional fighter or cleric build. Changing the rest duration hinders those who play non-casters more than casters anyway as they depend on someone to buff them to be able to do anything. Personally I would like to see the mossdale orc's be harder than they are, the sestra lizard shamans smarter with their flamestrikes, the veritas with less AC and more AB, Dispell traps in all the higher level area's, cheaper healing potions, an actually completed crafting system, better drops in the higher lvl dungeons etc.. I dont think the answer lies in any of the resting scripts or nerfing caster progression I think the answer lies in making the dungeons more dangerous for everyone as a whole and making more dungeons per lvl range

I personally like seeing creative builds designed to be durable on their own, but since this server only really has one to two areas per lvl range certain things are going to appear OP, I'm sure Raman would do just awesome in an anti-magic area with dispell magic traps, he would be able to do awesome in an area like that as long as he took a rogue along since Raman can perform the buffer and the tank roles.

Thomp, fully buffed by Seb, can cakewalk through anything on this server that can be crit'ed, and he can beat down most of that stuff as well. I think the duo of Seb and Thomp is OP but you take them apart and theyre both pretty easy to take out.

My suggestion to solve the Fighter/Cleric Hybrid and the Gish builds seeming OP is to put in stuff they cant handle on their own in the existing area's and build more area's that are unfriendly toward soloing players in the mid range lvl's since thats is where the largest portion of characters in the active player base are

I'm sure there was a point in Raman's lifecycle that he was dying alot, its different for each build

but even with 33 AC soloing the mossdale orcs is going to cost alot of money in healing potions no matter what kind of damage output you have

the optimum AC in there is 36-40, while the Veritas you want a large party with PrismaticCrow's warlock in it or a whole bunch of overbuffed chars that have High AB

I dont know exactly what your able to solo but I'm sure if you went deeper into the dungeon Raman would die

Personaly I feel Raman should be able to handle an opponent that could defeat a cleric or a fighter of the same lvl as Raman is both a Cleric and a Barb basically taking care of two rolls, if he partied with a rogue/wizard multiclass type it would make an impressive duo that could take almost any opponent on the server. Multi-class builds will always be more powerfull than pure builds at higher levels, and Multi-class + PrC will always be more powerfull than Pure + PrC etc..

[Root]

Equip everything with Dispel-on-hit Creature Weapons.

[Dragor]

To be fair thats a bit off since with my druid I could solo; bar my animal companion and a couple of summons here and there to do the big tanking.
This was back when Schild mountains was the grinding spot and the veritas were the game though..
I could solo every single tier up to the bosses virtually without harm and still get a nice healthy 96xp a kill, of course seen as he is capped its pretty much worthless now but I do still occassionally dust him off and buff everyone in my war party beyond demi-god status.

Considering you turn into a trent and you Animal companions AC is in the high 30's and a pure Druid can buff almost as well as Seb you take him into the mossdale caves or the current Veritas area you would still have trouble solo, I personally hate the trent form as it blocks the view of everything for you and everyone in the party in small area's.

But while your able to solo most of the area's the deeper mossdale would give you trouble and I'm sure your druid had some trouble early on as well

I'm not saying a pure class cant handle things solo, I'm saying a well thought out multi-class build is more powerfull at high lvls

[MadSeer]

A balanced build like Raman is going to have advantages over both a straight Cleric or a straight Barbarian. It is a powerfull build and it should be able to take and give damage in large amounts. That being said a straight fighter of the same level buffed by a cleric of the same level would own him even if the cleric did not get involved after the buffing. The game mechanics arent really designed to balance between builds like Raman and a traditional fighter or cleric build. Changing the rest duration hinders those who play non-casters more than casters anyway as they depend on someone to buff them to be able to do anything. Personally I would like to see the mossdale orc's be harder than they are, the sestra lizard shamans smarter with their flamestrikes, the veritas with less AC and more AB, Dispell traps in all the higher level area's, cheaper healing potions, an actually completed crafting system, better drops in the higher lvl dungeons etc.. I dont think the answer lies in any of the resting scripts or nerfing caster progression I think the answer lies in making the dungeons more dangerous for everyone as a whole and making more dungeons per lvl range


My suggestion to solve the Fighter/Cleric Hybrid and the Gish builds seeming OP is to put in stuff they cant handle on their own in the existing area's and build more area's that are unfriendly toward soloing players in the mid range lvl's since thats is where the largest portion of characters in the active player base are

You bring up a bunch of good points. And talking about the traps makes me think of auto dispel weapons. That's just something I've always hated (the weapons). You can't bypass it with a skilled rogue, dispel it yourself, one shot it ... you're just screwed if it hits you.

However I'd love to see a trap or two that would drop a Greater Spell Breach, or make the Caster spawns make use of various levels of dispelling. I'd much rather see a Sorcerer drop a Greater Wall of Dispel Magic than an orc that auto-dispel you with his mace or arrows. I've only seen that in the Necropolis and ... well no one goes down there.

Beyond that, completed crafting system, more accessible potions and bandages, items...all of that would go a long way in helping the non casters.

[Catastrophe]

For the sake of information in this thread, there are other things we are considering to give melee characters an edge, such as more effective poisons...

This is definitely something that would be real good.