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  • Resting 2.0

    There's a lot of complaints about the Resting system in place, mostly about Clerics just dropping a Lesser Restoration on themselves, which goes against what the armour penalties were implemented in for. Hindering armoured casters. But it really hinders the non casters more than anything else. So I came up with an idea (...okay, Brendig did in one of his threads, but I'm expending it).

    What if you can only rest to regain spells and daily abilities once per In Game day ? You can regain your HP via resting still, but you won't be able to buff to the state of Invincible Juggernaut and Beyond, drop to a knee and do so again to clear out dungeons twice your current CR. Similarly, the Barbarian won't Rage three times, drop to a knee then Rage three times again. Or the Monk won't use 50 stunning fists in 20 minutes. Casters mind the use of their spells and are meant for a brief moment of pure awesomeness, but won't do so every five minutes. Non casters become invaluable to the survival of said casters.

    On the plus side, implementing this would give:
    • Deeper RP backing up casters getting their spells. For example, Clerics actually pray at a specific time of day to get their spells.
    • Fighters, barbarians, rogues, rangers ... they all become invaluable assets in any party, since Clerics can't just buff themselves, crack some skulls and do that again.
    • Resting in armour penalties should remain, but you don't need the 35 seconds timer to put on a full plate any longer (that's really annoying when you can just RP "puts on the armour")
    • Poisons and ability drains become more than a minor inconvenience. You should be worried when your Constitution is drained below 10 and you don't have a restoration or an antidote nearby (gives Clerics a good reason to have Remove Disease, Neutralize Poison, etc)
    • Highly encourages grouping up in a Party.

    On the down side:
    • Probably requires rebalancing of most areas and monsters.
    • Could be tricky to script, but an easy alternative would be a Feat that restores HP (or part of it, depending on level and survival skill when not near a Resting Place) and a 24 hours timer on the actual Rest.

    What do you all think ?
    Raman Aseph - Runescarred Berserker
    http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.php?title=Raman_Aseph

  • #2
    Seen this done once a long time ago. It made you party with a fighter type. It made spells be used sparingly. It made everyone die quickly because the casters would not want to use their spells except to save their own hides.

    Clerics still buffed themselves more than the party members. Wizards just loaded invisibility so they could escape after their unbuffed tank died. And that server didn't even have th eresting in armor penalties to deal with. The staff had to drop everything down to where an unbuffed fighter could have a chance at surviving on his/her own. As soon as they did that, the clerics and mages could just use half the normal buffs and walk through solo again. Back to square one.

    Now, as a player of a lot of toons that are not major casters, I'd love to see this implemented. But only because the spawns would have to be tuned down so much that they could actually venture out on their own every once in a while.

    What I mentioned may not happen on Sundren...but I would be really shocked if it didn't. Casters and a "low magic" setting simply do not mix and there is very little that can be done about it as far as "balancing".

    I know...I'm a pessimist :P
    Ursus Ahrahl: Vengeful Desert Warrior (http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.php?title=Ursus_Ahrahl)
    Zaphram Babblerocks: Silly Gnome Tinkerer
    Ronon Darkholme: Eye and ear of the Night Watch of Kelemvor's Eternal Order (http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.ph...onon_Darkholme)
    Jakomyn Moriarty: Misunderstood Calishite mage (http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.php?title=Jakomyn_Moriarty)
    Turin Greyhold: Ex-mercenary paladin of Torm (http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.ph...reyhold,_Turin)
    Alexandros Pentacost: 1/2 Orc Cleric of the Red Knight
    "Remember, Private..Friendly Fire is not a nice warm place you and your hippy buddies sit around at night toasting marshmallows and singing Kumbaya." --Me to one of my troops way back when

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    • #3
      Casters and a "low magic" setting simply do not mix and there is very little that can be done about it as far as "balancing".
      Best way I've seen is to change up spell progression.
      Originally posted by Saulus
      Stop playing other shitty MMOs and work on Sundren, asshole.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MadSeer
        What if you can only rest to regain spells and daily abilities once per In Game day ?
        5 minutes per game hour = 120 minutes per game day

        2 Hours Interval between recharging abilities...

        Current time: 10 minutes... That means you'd have to wait 12x longer to recharge abilities.

        No offense but I think I rather put a fork in my eye.
        The very existence of flame-throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.

        George Carlin

        Comment


        • #5
          For instance changing wizard spell progression to something like:

          Level----------------Spells Per Day--------------
          ----------0-|-1-|-2-|-3-|-4-|-5-|-6-|-7-|-8-|-9-|
          ------------|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
          1---------4-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
          2---------4-|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
          3---------5-|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
          4---------5-|-3-|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
          5---------5-|-4-|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
          6---------5-|-4-|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
          7---------5-|-4-|-4-|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
          8---------5-|-5-|-4-|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
          9---------5-|-5-|-4-|-3-|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|
          10--------5-|-5-|-4-|-4-|-3-|---|---|---|---|---|
          11--------5-|-5-|-4-|-4-|-3-|-2-|---|---|---|---|
          12--------5-|-5-|-5-|-4-|-4-|-3-|---|---|---|---|
          13--------5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-4-|-4-|---|---|---|---|
          14--------5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-4-|-4-|-2-|---|---|---|
          15--------5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-4-|-3-|---|---|---|
          16--------5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-4-|-3-|-2-|---|---|
          17--------5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-4-|-4-|-3-|---|---|
          18--------5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-4-|-4-|---|---|
          19--------5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-4-|-4-|-2-|---|
          20--------5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-3-|---|
          21--------5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-3-|-2-|
          22--------5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-4-|-3-|
          23--------5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-4-|-4-|
          24--------5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-4-|
          25--------5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|
          26--------5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|
          27--------5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|
          28--------5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|
          29--------5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|
          30--------5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|-5-|


          ... and getting something similar for all caster classes (clerics, bards, druids, and their spontaneous casting counterparts) would help with the low magic feel of the game and tone down the uberness of spell casters a bit.
          Last edited by Cornuto; 08-20-2010, 08:46 PM.
          Originally posted by Saulus
          Stop playing other shitty MMOs and work on Sundren, asshole.

          Comment


          • #6
            I was going to go along with MadSeer suggestion with the caveat of not killing existing buffs that are present when resting. Simply perform the HP portion of the rest. That way buffs remain and casters will (continue to) be generous with their spells.

            ... but I like Saulus with two eyes *smiles*...

            That said, Cornuto has a great idea. if it is a low magic server then make it low for all not just those that depend on items (aka non-casters).
            Elandra: A former Red Blade, now roams the wilderness with the Lone wolf as her guide
            Alexandra: Ever faithful (just shy of a Zealot)
            Yodglum: May Kossuth's flame light your way and burn those in it!
            Ash: Dusty old miner of still looking for the "mother load" on Exigo's stag

            Shaving kittens: not an official sport, but fun just the same

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by nezzerscape View Post
              I was going to go along with MadSeer suggestion with the caveat of not killing existing buffs that are present when resting. Simply perform the HP portion of the rest. That way buffs remain and casters will (continue to) be generous with their spells.

              ... but I like Saulus with two eyes *smiles*...

              That said, Cornuto has a great idea. if it is a low magic server then make it low for all not just those that depend on items (aka non-casters).
              Yeah, that would just require editing the spell progression for every caster class... no problem...
              The very existence of flame-throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.

              George Carlin

              Comment


              • #8
                Sundren isn't a low magic server. The main plot evolves around resurecting a dead god and NPCs that instantly kill you by staring. That's high magic stuff and hindering level progression wouldn't help, imo. If you want low magic, then level has to be capped at around 10 max. For fighters or for casters.
                That said...this suggestion isn't about high or low magic. It's about doing what the Resting system was meant to do in the first place and that it fails at doing so.

                Saulus, you said one game day is 2 RL hours. Make it 12 In Game hours. You can regain your HP whenever the hell you want, your buffs stay on when you do that. Besides think of it this way, a level 15 caster will buff himself up for 30 minutes, not counting the hour/level buffs. That means he can rest, buff himself up, kill stuff for 30 minutes (resting in between the regain HP but not losing his spells) then he just needs to wait 30 more minutes to rest, then do that again. Timer keeps going when you're logged out anyway.

                Twice per day doesn't seem as bad as planting a fork in your eye.
                Raman Aseph - Runescarred Berserker
                http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.php?title=Raman_Aseph

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think Corny's surgestion is in an ideal an ideal world where it would be easy to implement and the player base wouldnt find a way round it (bonus slot feats, rings of arcane/divine e.t.c.)
                  Originally posted by roguethree
                  If I had my way, clerics would have spell failure and a d6 hit die. And Favored Souls wouldn't exist.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In a low magic world, casters are currently a big boon (unless they're asses, like the ones that Bedlam was talking about that only buff themselves and stick their noses up at the others around them... if you have friends like that, who needs enemies?).

                    It also depends on how we view low magic too doesn't it? I mean, if it's low magic because of low numbers of created items that give tanks a better chance at survival when there is no cleric/wizard around, that is one tier, but if it's low magic because say the weave is so crappy in Sundren it can't support huge numbers of crazy casters, that's another kettle of fish entirely.

                    I don't know, but I think re-balancing would have to be done. No one in their right mind is going to go poking around some areas without someone to keep them protected, and then there is the whole problem of sitting around a hostile area, waiting for the priest or wizard to rest so they can rebuff you so you don't get completely hosed.

                    I like the fact right now that you need magic help to complete most areas without burning through every type of potion you can carry every 3 minutes . It encourages RP by fighter and rogues to seek assistance from Clerics and Wizards. If you want everyone to switch to making fighters and rogues, I think this would be the way to do it; why bother with a caster if you're not needed and appreciated - isn't it bad enough most Clerics to not Preach?

                    I brought up this point before too in another post, and I'll summarize - how long are you actually in an area that has many dangerous creatures in it? Do you really spend an entire day in the Spittlefist caves only? Or is it a bunch of short excursions, slowly beating back the hordes of goblins that really live there (lets face it, if there was only 10 groups of 3 goblins [that's about right I think, 5 on each level]) then wouldn't the Exigo just march in there and clear the place right out? Sure, there are restraints to a fictional world and problems with numbers, but in an average "tribe" of goblins, shouldn't there be well over 200 at the minimum? You're not going to go walking through that in a day.
                    Bree - Bookkeeper and diplomat of Exigo.

                    Becky Dragonhin - Sword of the Loyal Fury, Knight of the Triad... the only Good hin in Sundren???
                    Cybil Gelley (Retired)
                    Perry Turnipfodder - aspiring talent, happy chronicler.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Saulus View Post
                      Yeah, that would just require editing the spell progression for every caster class... no problem...
                      ??? I complement a staff member and get sarcasm back ???
                      I would rather simply see your typical “not going to happen” and close the thread
                      Anyways, independent to how doable it is, I still think it is a great idea Cornuto.

                      Nez
                      Elandra: A former Red Blade, now roams the wilderness with the Lone wolf as her guide
                      Alexandra: Ever faithful (just shy of a Zealot)
                      Yodglum: May Kossuth's flame light your way and burn those in it!
                      Ash: Dusty old miner of still looking for the "mother load" on Exigo's stag

                      Shaving kittens: not an official sport, but fun just the same

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don't want everyone to switch to fighters and rogues. But right now, beyond removing traps, everything the non caster classes can do, the casters can do it better. That, in itself, is quite normal. That they can do it time and time again without having to wait whatsoever in between is not.
                        Raman Aseph - Runescarred Berserker
                        http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.php?title=Raman_Aseph

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Raman a cleric?

                          The only caster's I consistantly see soloing are Karn and Katalina(?) Zephyr(?) and they both die.

                          Seb is lvl 18 now and can barely solo stuff he gets no xp for, talk about OP

                          on the other hand he can buff a lvl 14 fighter and they can survive fights in the mossdale

                          The rare and mysterious party buffer does exist you just have to ask around that fire that literally everyone on the server can be standing around at any given time.

                          Casters are not nearly as OP on this server as everyone seems to think (for the dungeons) From what I can tell the dungeons are built for a buffer, a melee char, and a third guy. A buffer and a melee char can do just fine.

                          Modifying the spell progression would render making a multi-class caster pointless and decrease the amount of effective buffers on the server making it even harder for melee's to do things than it already is

                          And the resting Idea would cause much the same issue unless every dungeon on the server was rebalanced making it almost a cakewalk

                          Everything I have ran into is balanced for a buffer, a buffed melee char, and an either/or char except for the veritas which is balanced for a bunch of buffed AC tanks and a warlock with binding blast. (Personally I'd rather run the Veritas because it takes about 5 Chars to pull off, although the deeper mossdale does as well apparently)

                          Sorry these kind of requests make me cranky, I apologize if I have offended anyone
                          "Half the lies they tell about me aren't true."
                          Yogi Berra

                          Learn things:http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
                          http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

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                          • #14
                            Yeah, Raman's a cleric. And he can solo places higher levels can't because they're not clerics, and Raman can go on a killing spree, rest, go on another and so on. Which is why I'm suggesting this.

                            You might be right saying casters aren't OP, I don't know for wizards and druids. But when you can just regain your spells every 10 minutes, playing a cleric myself I know for a fact they certainly are. Compared to the other classes, that is.
                            Raman Aseph - Runescarred Berserker
                            http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.php?title=Raman_Aseph

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by nezzerscape View Post
                              ??? I complement a staff member and get sarcasm back ???
                              I would rather simply see your typical “not going to happen” and close the thread
                              Anyways, independent to how doable it is, I still think it is a great idea Cornuto.

                              Nez
                              Most of the things coming down the pipe in the suggestion list I classify as 'balance issues'. And the reality is, it will never be balanced because it's DND.

                              Not to mention that none of the players can agree on specific balancing issues. So I'm far more inclined not to change what we've been using for years.

                              And really, anything to do with balance needs to be taken with a grain of salt, people can grossly over exaggerate things. Take something like Company of Heroes or Starcraft 2.... When they rebalance units or abilities there's very little if any community input... it's too skewed.

                              North America says Zerg suck, Korea says they are OP'd... who is right? Well that's what statistics are for.

                              Also, it seems Sundren players are really good at suggesting things which are 1) incredibly hard to implement in aurora or
                              2) time consuming to implement for little pay-off
                              The very existence of flame-throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.

                              George Carlin

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