Resting Arbitraryness

[Fezzik]

Fighters do live out of their armour, yes... and knights when they had to probably did sleep in their armour, but most of the time, they dressed down a lot, and only put on the heavy plate when they were about to go into battle (so yes, they were screwed while if they got ambushed). If you've ever been in something close to medieval armour, you wouldn't want to rest it in; you wouldn't want to eat while wearing it and you certainly wouldn't want to go to the bathroom while wearing it. Sure, if its custom made armour, like 14th and 15th century full plate, fine, it should be comfortable enough to ride through France in for a week, but honestly, that stuff cost more than a small keep... which is why everyone on the field of battle wasn't wearing it, and why Knights (heavy cavalry) was so terrifying.

I'm not talking about Tilting armour either... that stuff was just stupid .

[Root]

"Hah! I'll just rest here, then drink this funky green potion ... ahhh... Huh!? What's tha.... AGGNHNNN!" * Splat!*

More: 'HaHA, I will just kneel down, tie my shoelaces in prayer to Agelet, God of Shoelaces, and then use his might to completely negate the fatigue caused by tying my shoelaces!'



(Agelet is the God of Shoelaces, and Shoes. He is who I assume every Cleric whose diety I do not know after knowing them for five minutes follows.

He accepts prayer in the form of tying ones shoelaces, at any given time of day.

He allows priests of any alignment, and his favoured weapon is the Bastard Sword.

Dogma is 'Do whatever the hell you want'.

His domains are Travel, Time, and any other powerbuildable ones.)

[Subal]

Then that adds one more wonderful thing to make for custom made armor, perhaps custom made armor could have the effect of no risk when sleeping in it , well if its master crafted anyways, nice little idea for the new system

[GodBeastX]

The issue of armor basically came about because of eldritch knights mainly. Eldritch knights basically wear heavy armor. They unequip, cast, equip. Split seconds.

I'd love to redo the resting system but I'd probably skew it the opposite direction where you only get spells back every so often, but heal every time you rest. That's just me.

[Root]

Then retain the time to unequip, and remove the penalty for resting in armour?

Sounds like one system in place to add a bit of realism, combined with another to balance out the gishes, which resulted in screwing over the Fighters.

[MadSeer]

The issue of armor basically came about because of eldritch knights mainly. Eldritch knights basically wear heavy armor. They unequip, cast, equip. Split seconds.

I'd love to redo the resting system but I'd probably skew it the opposite direction where you only get spells back every so often, but heal every time you rest. That's just me.

That's actually the idea that wandered my mind as I was reading this post.
I don't think it would hurt, gish characters wouldn't solo the crap out of Ogbo the level 30 demon lord of gloom and casters overall would mind the use of their spells -- no super buff and super magic action, rest, rinse, repeat. Gives back to the non casting classes their former glory.

[The Almight Red]

I honestly think Usurper had the right of it. It's not that most people disagree with the whole, "Casters are ridiculously powerful and clerics tend to just be War-Machines more often than realistic priests." Hell, I entirely agree with those sentiments. Entirely.

It's just that it's a topic that's been dragged through the mud over and over, and it's considered 'dead horse.'

Focusing on the fighter aspect is probably the best bet. And I have to agree. If the point was to stop EKs, in particular, it seems to be ruining the most difficult classes in the end. Those being things like Fighters. I do like the idea behind making the rest times longer, and healing the melee classes all the way up, personally.

Considering you can only rest every 10 minutes, I think it's reasonable. It's not like they can just spam rest to heal after every encounter then. And I really hope the reason isn't for PnP realism.

Because being able to rest every ten minutes isn't even remotely realistic. It's not like they're sleeping, anyway. Until they enforce a rest system where you can only rest at taverns, like some servers, you have to just ignore the lack of realism in the rest system.

[07paul87]

I think some evil god should kill Mystra, then Ao steps in and says something like "HEY! STOP IT!" then cuts off the gods from their followers.

*THEN* we fighters, rogues (non-HiPSing), swashbucklers, duelists, monks, barbarians, frenzied beserkers, weaponmasters, and rangers (without that lame divine magic mumbo-jumbo) can step in and RULE THE WORLD!!!

And of course, this would also settle debates about resting

[Nil]

I think some evil god should kill Mystra,

Ooh. Maybe Cyric and Shar could do it!

Then there could be this plague that falls on the land and magic stops working. We could call it the Spellplague.

Sadly, the only god worth paying attention to in FR, Arvoreen, would die during it. But at least Tyr and Helm do to.

[07paul87]

Whateva, you know Ao's really just an aspect of Gruumsh, right?

[Nil]

Whateva, you know Ao's really just an aspect of Gruumsh, right?

I actually LoL'd at this.

[Fezzik]

That means that Tempus is really Ao, cause Gruumsh is an aspect of Tempus!

[Machiavelli]

The issue of armor basically came about because of eldritch knights mainly. Eldritch knights basically wear heavy armor. They unequip, cast, equip. Split seconds.

There are some seriously heavy feat requirements for EK now though. And no, my PC doesn't comply with them, but he doesn't use armour anyway

[TheBlankStare]

This is a topic dear to my heart. It always has been.

Honestly, nerfing casters hurts fighters too - fewer buffs to go around.

Sorry, Nil. It really doesn't hurt fighters at all. It's sad, but most casters don't have enough spells left to buff the poor fighter types when they're done buffing themselves.

Another way of looking at it is that the rest penalties can currently be removed with a restoration spell of any type. If staff wanted to change this, then the rest penalties or the spell scripts could be modified.

It would be very nice for this to happen if the "resting in armor" system as it's currently implemented stays forever. Making it so that the penalties are impossible to remove for the entire ten minutes would be ideal.

Well I understand the waiting around thing. perhaps along with that, the time between rests could be shortened.

It's not that time between rests being too long that makes fighter so difficult. It's actually that the time between rests is too short. Being able to rest every ten minutes hurts heavily armored fighters. It actually turns their intended higher durability into a weakness when their friends with tons of magic can rest every few minutes and be back up to full strength with their entire arsenal of magic at their disposal. Being a durable tough type who can dish out and take a beating at the same time has very little value in that situation.

Fighters and their heavily armored brethren are supposedly quite hardy individuals but on Sundren they're essentially excess baggage in a party considering the number of casting classes that abound.

The issue of armor basically came about because of eldritch knights mainly. Eldritch knights basically wear heavy armor. They unequip, cast, equip. Split seconds.

There are some seriously heavy feat requirements for EK now though. And no, my PC doesn't comply with them, but he doesn't use armour anyway

This deserves it's own topic, but Eldritch Knights should probably be a locked class on any server. Here on Sundren the feat requirements make any type of an EK that doesn't wear armor a really silly idea to play. Those requirements actually force you into wearing armor if you want to take the Prestige Class. (I actually find it amusing that the class requires the armored spell caster feats but doesn't require any armor proficiencies at all. Unless I've read those feats wrong all this time and they also grant proficiency with armor.)

Until they enforce a rest system where you can only rest at taverns, like some servers, you have to just ignore the lack of realism in the rest system.

Exactly right, Red. Resting is just too easy. Way way too easy.

So the big thing about fighters is that their durability isn't really an asset. and it needs to be. It's what they're (supposedly) supposed to be good at. Here's my idea on how to make it into an asset.

Increase the rest timer to once every 30-45 minutes and make resting impossible in any area that isn't upstairs at an inn or a faction HQ. You could mitigate that by allowing players to carry around firewood or something that would let them rest in the wilderness (but not in the streets of towns) but the 30-45 minute timer would still be in effect. DMs can force rest PCs so if it needs to be done during an event that won't present a problem.

This increases the value of a tough guy's durability and decreases the value of relying on spells to become an invincible war machine. Using magic to enhance the tough guy fighter types suddenly becomes a much more efficient use of those spells and it increases the value of finding a party to adventure with.

It doesn't nerf casters at all because they could still buff themselves to the nines and go out and slice and dice to their heart's content but it makes it a lot easier on them to find a tough guy to bring along.

[Infallius_Daemonium]

I can only speak for myself here, but as a Wizard I always try to fight alongside a fighter type. The sheer amount of damage and durability that they have with my buffs just makes my damage spells seem inefficient.

Because of this, if I'm in a group I only keep a few offensive spells usually. The rest are either long/medium duration buffs, and extended haste. Of course, if I had only one person to buff there would be a lot more room for them so it depends.