Level caps on certain areas

[Fezzik]

You mean like the Trebechet that never gets fired? I'm sure raining rocks of fire would put a dent in anyone's attack up the mountain. I know the char I've done it with would have thought twice... or three times.

[Subal]

i was thinking the same thing fezzik, i know when dm's are arround they actually fire the seige weapons and people think very quickly about what there about to attack. a system of barrages could be placed that when you enter the grass area before the hill, constant barrage like when dm's do it ? not sure if this is even possible , but would definetly be alot of fun rp wise.

[Maevan2]

Veritas and Mossdale will end up relatively empty of high levels.

Mossdale even more empty?

*replaces the spawns in Mossdale and turns it into a low level area*

[BedlamX]

Playing Devil's advocate here, but what you seem to be suggesting is the limiting of attackers to those who can not defend themselves against high level PC defenders as well as the NPCs. Base defending is the only time a PC can attack alongside NPCs and not get a smack down from the DMs that I know of from reading the rules posted. So, in essence, if you limit the attackers to a lower level, the higher level defenders have a decidingly clear advantage. I already know of several people that just avoid Veritas any time Gromlin is logged in. OOC overriding IC behavior? Definitely. But what is the point of a small lvl 15-17 group going in there against a small army AND a high level tank with uber AC (figured out Ursus would need to roll 19 or higher to even touch him after being told what his AC was a while back...and that's buffed to high hells). The risk outweighs the reward...without any scripting necessary.

Now, you say that higher levels only go up there to grab some quick gold since they don't get xp? I was under the impression you don't get even gold after you hit the point where an enemy stops giving xp. That's how it always seemed to go for me. Ursus (lvl 18 with a lvl 19 cap) gets 15+ xp per kill in Veritas with a group of 3 like level toons. The True Sunderers are a serious pain even with decent gear (and by decent, I mean the best I can currently buy at the enclave ...which is not even close to what some out there have) and the dispelling guys kill your buffs on a good hit. Is it like fighting in the temple of Grummsh? Nope. Does it give as high an xp reward? Nope. Lower risk, lower reward. I have yet to get any sort of "phat lootz" (i.e. Items) from any of the bosses in Veritas either. The gold gain is nice, but after replenishing healing supplies, it is not exactly a lottery win, either.

[Subal]

20's no longer get exp cept Rp ,so then all 20's would be broke as crap if nothing gave them coin.

[BedlamX]

Don't know about lvl 20s ...never had one :P

My main point was that not everyone higher than 17 runs Veritas just for gold. I still get pretty decent xp for a small risk at lvl 18 in Veritas (with a small group of 3 ...not really interested in going alone as I know Ursus can't survive past the first level or so without some wards...and it gets boring alone).

[Fezzik]

The same thing could be said about high level rogues/assassins/shadowdancers defending the Cartel mountain, but no one seems to mind that nearly as much (even though they are a bit more lethal than a stubby little no good dwarf we all know - although I think some people do avoid that mountain when certain oocly known ones are on) because the attackers are much lower level and generally don't have anything close to his equipment.

[Lothoir]

If you could have gotten xp from a kill, barring the scripted level cap, then you will gain gold.

[Subal]

Gromlin isnt always in the Headquarters, infact he rarely is, most people that get killed by him are unlucky and are seen as he is on his way into the bunker, or when he IC does his watches by walking through the inside.

So there is no real reason to hide from the veritas when gromlin is on ooc, you just have to be careful and watch your back

[GodBeastX]

I think people need to pause a moment and realize what the issue they have is.

From my reading it sounds like "Too many people are just running up the mountain and slaughtering veritas and the defenders have a problem with this."

The solution seems obvious, deterance. Deterance is funny that way, it seems the best method is limitations. Incentives are much better methods than deterants. So you give incentives for people not to be there, something like... another dungeon, bonuses for branching out to various places, etc etc. Level 20's who need gold will become far less frequent or maybe vanish completely.

"Huh... I can cast undeath to death here and rack up 1000 gold or fight my way through veritas for 250 gold."

Some people will still go there, but it's better to always make everyone happy.

As I said, we have more areas in the works. Once you guys die to my Dire T-Rex, my life will be complete.

[BedlamX]

The same thing could be said about high level rogues/assassins/shadowdancers defending the Cartel mountain, but no one seems to mind that nearly as much (even though they are a bit more lethal than a stubby little no good dwarf we all know - although I think some people do avoid that mountain when certain oocly known ones are on) because the attackers are much lower level and generally don't have anything close to his equipment.

And I agree. I personally hate that uber toons can defend lower level leveling areas from assaults. But, that's how it is, so a moot point. Nothing stops an uber toon from going up the Cartel mountain either, though. Just no real reward unless it's an RP thing. As long as you can get a reward for going through an area, the area will bring a crowd of toons trying to catch up to those who leveled before them. This game is structured to be a "Keeping up with the Jones" system. RP servers try and get around that, but it is a losing battle. As long as there is a progressive power xp system, players will want to progress.

No one seems to mind that people grind Mossdale orcs for gold/xp at higher levels. Yet it is the same principle. Only difference: no PC defenders. You limit players from going in to attack at a certain level, you would need to limit the defenders from killing the lower level ones doing the assault.

On that note, one thing pops to mind about the area level caps, though. Would that not keep the higher level defenders out, too? That could pose a problem in and of itself.

[BedlamX]

I think people need to pause a moment and realize what the issue they have is.

From my reading it sounds like "Too many people are just running up the mountain and slaughtering veritas and the defenders have a problem with this."

The solution seems obvious, deterance. Deterance is funny that way, it seems the best method is limitations. Incentives are much better methods than deterants. So you give incentives for people not to be there, something like... another dungeon, bonuses for branching out to various places, etc etc. Level 20's who need gold will become far less frequent or maybe vanish completely.

"Huh... I can cast undeath to death here and rack up 1000 gold or fight my way through veritas for 250 gold."

Some people will still go there, but it's better to always make everyone happy.

As I said, we have more areas in the works. Once you guys die to my Dire T-Rex, my life will be complete.

I love positive reinforcement

Bring on the new areas

[Nil]

"Huh... I can cast undeath to death here and rack up 1000 gold or fight my way through veritas for 250 gold."

This kind of idea doesn't help the problem of melee characters being unable to really contribute in situations like this. Crit-immune enemies make things pretty much a no-go for most non-casters. So, we're forced to go elsewhere.

[GodBeastX]

This kind of idea doesn't help the problem of melee characters being unable to really contribute in situations like this. Crit-immune enemies make things pretty much a no-go for most non-casters. So, we're forced to go elsewhere.

Why would you do that to yourself? Limit your viewpoint to a single character? This often creates problems where there isn't one.

Melee has differences as well. Weapon materials and enchantments on weapon. The melee class itself. I doubt a paladin fighting undead cares all that much about crit immunity when he has something giving him bonus damage against undead, or a ranger that happens to have favored enemies of outsiders. What about spirit shamans and the like? And if the crit immune things give better rewards, despite the difficulty of combat for something like a rogue or weapon master, they're more likely to fight them as well.

That's also not taking into account the melee characters that dont' WANT to fight veritas and have RP reasons to avoid them.

The idea isn't to stop people, it's to spread people out. Incentives give far better results than limitations in this regard.

[Nil]

GBX, I don't really follow your logic here, so I'm missing your point, though I do want to understand it.

First, you use casters as examples to prove your point (except for the rogue, which is largely my viewpoint here, but in the case of the rogue, you admit they're not all that useful).

The issue is that even if I'm joining with a group, I'm really not pulling my weight here. I'm counting on the class features of others to make me effective in these situations (sure, I tear everything up when I'm buffed, but that's not the point). I realize this is a weakness of the D&D 3.5 rules, and not just a issue with area design in Sundren.

I just get concerned when I see a solution put forth that makes many of us comparitively weaker than we already are.

Maybe there are great areas filled with spell resistant creatures out there and I've just not seen them yet.