Dwarves resting in armour

[Silas North]

I'm against the idea of dwarves getting such a feat for free, but I DO like the idea of it requiring a CON prerequisite making them the most likely race to employ such things.. though I have a hard time seeing gnomes do the same. Maybe it should have a CON requirement and you must be medium sized.


100 pounds does sound closer, but the art of full plate is that it is distributed over the body making it more akin to lesser weight than what it would total if you removed the whole suit and put it on a scale.

In fact, based on my own experience in wearing a suit of armor, I'd even say 50 pounds is a bit high, and this thing was not even custom tailored to me (which probably makes it closer to half-plate really). For game mechanics though, it's fine as it is imo.

Overall though, I'd only say it's worth it if such a thing could be done easily. Let's not forget all the poor hard working assassins out there that would go hungry if they could not stab you out of your armor.

[Doubtful]

You were wearing a dud set of armour then Uri!

Well fighting plate doesn't massively restrict your movement in combat, if it did then it would be pretty useless. It is however utterly crap in tight spaces, and against certain arrows/bolts. And pole arms. And pointy knives. And bullets. And a lot of other things.

It's weird that pole arms are so underrated in dnd - they're pretty much the ultimate anti-plate close combat weapon.

[Spacedog]

Maybe he was wearing a set of jousting armor.

[BedlamX]

Maybe he was wearing a set of jousting armor.

Was gonna say this very thing. I actually put on a suit of this for a ren fest tourney once long ago. Had to be hoisted into the saddle due to movement issues.

Now, the field plate we tried on to do sword fights was a bit easier to move in. The armorer took pieces of various sizes to get close to a custom fit, so that helped a lot.

[Doubtful]

Fair point on the jousting armour, that stuff is pretty insane, and for damn good reason! But it's not any indicator at all of how proper field plate should fit and move.

[prismaticcrow]

I'd much rather see a feat that folks can take to rest in medium / heavy armor. A prerequisite of the feat could be a minimum of like 13, 14, or 15 CON.

There is a real pnp feat remarkably similar to what is described here called Endurance. The feat gives you a bunch of environmental save bonuses and allows you to sleep in light and medium armor without fatigue. Since the server already allows rest in light armor, it would be a simply matter to extend the benefit to heavy armor as well.

[roguethree]

While it looks heavy, a full plate armour set could be as light as only 20 kg (45 pounds) if well made of tempered steel.

Warrior Race: A History of the British at War. St. Martin's Press. pp. 119. ISBN 0312307373.

I've seen video of people in accurate full plate doing back flips. Also, that stuff was nearly impenetrable; if the dude was in full plate, you aimed for a seam, the head, or tried to put him on his back in a thick melee.

[Biohazard89]

I think people tend to misunderstand what a Fullplate armor is.

Fullplate is what the medivale knights serveing as heavy cavalry was wearing. nearly indestructable by anything powered by human strength. Its designed to Withstand anything that hits the user and it weighs between 70-120Kg, they are designed for you to be sitting relativly still on a horse with only arm movement and minor leg movement.

Fullplate in NWN is in fact a Battleplate It is a scaled down version of a fullplate still incorporateing the Angles and deflective properties of a fullplate but not as thick or heavy. its easier to break through still pretty tough to do so.
Its consists of a Padded Armor, a Chainmail, and a set of plates, where the plates covered Vital spots like chest shoulders arms and such while leaveing joints only covered by the padding and the Chainmail. These being the armpits the inner elbow the hip and the Back side of the Knees.

Battleplates usually weighed about 50-70kg depending on how good it was.

So id say a BIG NO WAY to sleeping in stuff like this, and while Dwarves for the most part are never caught unarmored being that most clans nightwear is actually a chainshirt, i cant imagine anything but a campaigning Dwarven Defender sleeping in something like a plate armor, and that would be because he was forced to.

Its heavy, it makes breathing difficult when lieing down due to the weight on your chest and you would exhaust your strength sleeping in it because your body would have to use tremendous amounts of energy if you were to turn in your sleep (Which most people do)

So a BIG no no from me.

And i play a dwarf.

[Doubtful]

I was going to write a long explanation on how plate works, bullet-proofing and bandit-proofing and how that applies to traditional armour, how swords are a really stupid weapon to attack someone in armour with and the importance of carrying a long thin knife to stab plate wearers in the eyes.

Then I remembered this is a fantasy game with a design aesthetic that makes me want to vomit my own eyes out.

So, if dwarves want to wear the skimpy platemail bikini and g-string armour combos then I say let them sleep in it!

If they don't want to dress like a nightmare combination of The Wizard of Oz and The Rocky Horror Picture Show then they can't sleep in it.

[Fezzik]

Give the feat to Gnomes for free instead... maybe then you'd see some gnomes actually doing something other than running away in terror when a snake crawls out of the grass.

"Quick! Throw Gordie onto the snake, he's asleep in his armour, he won't notice!"

[cdnspr]

Okay, we're getting mixed responses here, and I respect that. Alot of people are sharing their thoughts, on both side of the board; this is why I started the thread.

I wanted to comment on one of the responses I'm getting, though: (paraphrased) people can't rest properly in heavy armour, it's too cumbersome, heavy, etc.

I just wanted to put things in perspective (or at least my perspective): normal (real) people wouldn't be able to rest properly in full armour, but the people we're talking about here aren't 0-level fighters, civilians, etc, but paragons of their respective races; they are the exceptions, the people who murder dragons in their own lairs, channel the will of the gods on a daily basis, etc. They're in the habit of regularly doing things that most people would consider near-impossible. And the resilience of dwarves surpasses even that of their peers. It might stand to reason that the most resilient among these world-changing paragons might be able to occasionally rest despite the discomfort of armour.

Anyways, I know that probably won't cause people to suddenly change their opinions on this, but I wanted to share it anyway

[Urithrand]

"Field plate" is not full plate, it is platemail as per 2e descriptors. 3.5e doesn't seem to specify. Full plate would be far more akin to jousting armor. And regardless, even lighter more free moving armours would be made of solid steel. Laying down on solid steel is not comfortable, even when it's flat. Having bits digging into your every orafice would simply make the experience more unpleasant. Sleeping in armour is as far as I'm concerned a physical impossibility except maybe chainmail. Or if you haven't slept in several weeks, then you could sleep on pretty much anything. Fuck me you'd hurt when you woke up though.

Regardless of anyone's level, nobody specialises in getting to sleep, or finding comfortable ways to sit. Unless you'd like us to make a new skill to put points into which will spread your skillpoints even thinner

[Doubtful]

Fuck me you'd hurt when you woke up though.

That sounds like a Saturday night promise if ever I heard one.

[DM_Equinox]

I refuse to Go There

[Intrepid42]

Unlike Doubtful, I couldn't resist the urge to make a lengthy post.

My personal view is that resting in heavy armor shouldn't be "free" for anyone.

It depends on what your personal conception of what dwarves are, and what limitations armor should have in this fictional setting.

My own view is that I see dwarves as having a heavy armor affinity, but that this is as much due to cultural reasons as something innately dwarven. Innately, dwarves are (in PnP) resilient, more stable and less mobile unarmored than likely foes, so they would find heavy armor even more suitable than others, if they were going to be fighting in wide passageways/spaces on level ground (not always the case in the Underdark, of course).

However, both in RL and the game mechanics you are usually better off in well-made plate armor if you're going to be a front-line hammer-swinger. Most NPC soldiers would be warriors or fighters rather than specialists such as rangers, and would seek heavy armor, if they could get it.

As such, I would say that a more important influence is that dwarves have easier access to metal and skilled armorsmiths (they do tend to build their holds right on top of mineral deposits, after all). As such they would find it easier to outfit their frontline warriors with heavier armor, so their warriors have more opportunity to get to know and love it, as a whole.

As for those not gearing up for battle, I see dwarven miners and deepscouts wearing gear appropriate for the task at hand.

However, our rules are best made for extra-ordinary adventurers rather than building ordinary folk, as cdnspr states. Heroes of any race can be more resilient than the average of another race. I think a general all-race feat for resting in heavy armor with a CON pre-req like PL suggested would be cool for flavor. It would be useful for the occasional player who wanted to build a never-takes-off-armor type, but may not justify builder time.

For your information, here is the 3.5e Player's Handbook description of Full Plate. DnD has a rather simplified and arbitrary way of handling different types of armor, to suit PnP play. I find it frustrating at times.

Full Plate: This armor consists of shaped and fitted metal plates riveted and interlocked to cover the entire body. The suit includes gauntlets, heavy leather boots, a visored helmet, and a thick layer of padding that is worn underneath the armor. Buckles and straps distribute the weight over the body, so full plate hampers movement less than splint mail even though splint is lighter. Each suit of full plate must be individually fitted to its owner by a master armorsmith, although a captured suit can be resized to fit a new owner at a cost of 200 to 800 (2d4 × 100) gold pieces.
Full plate is also known as field plate.

The ability to use Lesser Restoration to remove the ill-effects of resting in heavy armor implies that you are able to get some rest/pray in the first place. Staff could consider a revert to back when you couldn't rest in heavy armor at all.

Personally I'd love a game with more realistic armors, where you would need lighter armor in tight confines, and swords were less useful than hammers/polearms against plate as others have said (consider DR vs slashing!). But then compromise has to be found and that wouldn't be everyone's idea of fun.

So, if dwarves want to wear the skimpy platemail bikini and g-string armour combos then I say let them sleep in it!

There is NO chance of me playing a dwarf who wears skimpy armor.