Grey Orcs a Closed Race

[Vicissitudes]

As I understand it, Grey Orcs are currently an "open" race. They can be played by anyone, without approval or RPOTM winning-ness. They're an ECL race, I know, but, that's not the majority of my concern...

It doesn't make sense, to me, for Grey Orcs to be an open race, playable by anyone. A half-orc in a human society would of course face a certain amount of predjudice and hostility which, I believe, is represented well ingame. Players RP reactions to half-orcs well.

But Grey Orcs are a different brood entirely. They're not half-orcs, or a race that would exist normally within human society... they're monsters. Like yuan-ti, tieflings, etc, etc. It's something that requires a ton of finesse to play. They're still very obviously monsters, and would not be welcome in human society. They're orcs, after all.

At the moment, people treat grey orcs as no different to half-orcs. Though the character models are almost identical, in NWN2 in FR lore Grey Orcs, though less bestial, are still decidedly ORCS.

I'm not saying that existing Grey Orc characters should be "removed" - rather, any change, existing characters should be grandfathered in. But I would like to submit this suggestion, to make Grey Orc a "closed" race, playable only by people who've gone through the usual procedure to play an ECL race.

It makes no sense to me that they're not already - it seems to me that the exact same reasons Tieflings, Yuan-ti, etc etc, are Closed Races, apply just as thoroughly to Grey Orcs, yet the latter are not a closed race. Weird.


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Wiki links:

Grey Orcs an Open Race on race list
Grey Orcs an Open Race on the grey orc page

[richardleitch5]

i thought they was a closed race, dont they level slower than others?

[Saulus]

Gray Orcs were left open because Orcs we choose to group in as a whole. Very few people would select this race. Currently the situation is, if it becomes a problem, it will become a closed race.

Currently we can see that the ratio of gray orcs and half orcs is pretty close: http://www.sundren.org/index.php?page=statistics

However if that really becomes a problem, we will change it. It is after all very difficult with an ECL race to level, and the hatred against them would only serve to increase that difficulty.

[Vicissitudes]

Currently we can see that the ratio of gray orcs and half orcs is pretty close: http://www.sundren.org/index.php?page=statistics

However if that really becomes a problem, we will change it. It is after all very difficult with an ECL race to level, and the hatred against them would only serve to increase that difficulty.

But, hold on... if the ratio is close, it clearly IS a problem. It shouldn't be. Lore-wise and RP-wise, Grey Orcs should be extremely rare within a FR surface society, as much so as tieflings, yuanti, and possibly drow.

And people SHOULD be RPing hatred towards grey orcs, but aren't. You guys obviously have Closed Races closed for a reason. And that same reason applies to Grey Orcs.

[Peridan]

Orcs and Half Orcs are a legal race within Sundren law. By registering with the Anderson Act, all orcs can be afforded rights the same as any other humanoid race, besides drow which are universally hated throughout.

As for RP, yes people should be wary and hating towards them all. In fact, most people do act in such a way unless they have a valid IC reason for behaving differently.

But I looked at the statistics, and there are 12 orcs and 16 grey orcs ever created. While it may seem a lot when you look at the average player population as a whole, you have to realize that most of these characters sit in a player's server vault, and are either never used or used rarely.

So I agree with Saulus, in that it isn't really much of a problem.

[Machiavelli]

I only ever saw one grey orc PC logged in...

[Vicissitudes]

I've seen four so far. More than I have half-orcs, which is a huge disappointment.

[Saulus]

I've seen four so far. More than I have half-orcs, which is a huge disappointment.

Well I'm sorry you see it as a disappointment but so far I do not see a big problem.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Ive seen some around, extremely difficult to RP with Peligir. My actions would borderline on griefing because of him an orc racist (thus I havnt acted on IC knowledge of their existance so far). How can you deal with a known threat as a stealthy character?
Its hard to draw the line because out of human nature if you tell someone oocly your stalking them they are naturally going to be afraid to adventure or even get injured for fear of a crazy~ass ranger being on their tail!

*edit* Just an example, I havnt attacked any orcs/half orcs yet :S Just seems funny that most of them go about their business without a mask or anything! only one I saw with a full face garb was some gray orc monk female (cant remember the name, sorry) who naturally couldnt be singled out as a monster because of her attire.

[Kaeldorn]

What's most odd is that the two I've seen, they were around simultaneously. And they were both jolly 'cute' dumb-arses. Neither acted like the barbaric, bloodthirsty people they should be.

That's creepy, when I've seen less non-evil drow in the long while I've played.

[Captain Caveman]

What's most odd is that the two I've seen, they were around simultaneously. And they were both jolly 'cute' dumb-arses. Neither acted like the barbaric, bloodthirsty people they should be.

Obviously that role is now being played by the Halflings ! They were scared to compete.

[Phantom Lamb]

From my understanding, grey orcs don't have quite the same reputation as common orcs. They are smarter and less prone to the "horde" mentality.

That being said, I think more PCs should react with hatred. Flee from them or try to attack them! The grey orcs themselves should probably avoid civilization--most of the commonfolk would run or try to lynch them on-sight.

We'll keep an eye on the grey orc population and restrict it if we have to. However, keep in mind that there is a large population of grey orcs in Sundren. You just haven't encountered them yet

[Kaeldorn]

I had Morris wanting to suffocate one of them, while brogueadier's assassin-type had pulled his daggers and wanted to spill blood. Then we were treated like the bad guys all of a sudden by 4 or so bystanders.

[The Almight Red]

I've seen three grey orcs, so far. And only one half-orc. All three grey orcs have run around in clear sight, yeah. At the first one, I thought, "Ok. That's one. No big deal." At two, I was a bit, "Wha?" And now, today, at three... it does seem quite high, considering I've only been playing for what? Three weeks? Maybe four? But, that's just me. I honestly do count it like a Drow. Lore-wise, we should be seeing them practically as often as a Drow in these lands. Perhaps a tinge more often than a Drow.

But three of them in that short period of time is a little shocking. But, on the other hand, as long as they're RPed well, I guess I'm not going to care all that much.

Edit: I missed PL's post about there being a large population of them in Sundren. If that's the case, well, then it makes a lot more sense, frankly. So, 's all good.

[Sweet Spirit]

The DMs know more about Sundren than we do, since they basically ru0/discuss the workings that they try to keep hidden from players so their plots have elements of surprise.

If the DMs are happy with whatever number of rare races are being played then that is good enough for me ^-^

I do remember the group of bloodthirsty hin though. That was halarious xD