charactor build idea

[Product of Void]

Some one mentioned a dwarven tank. So I thought about it and this is the best idea I could come up with.


Rogue(8), Bard(1), Fighter(2), Red Dragon Disciple(4)
Race: Gold Dwarf

Alignment: Not lawful
Deity: -
STR: 15(22)
DEX: 13
CON: 15
WIS: 10
INT: 13
CHA: 12
{Darkvision, Stonecunning, Hardiness vs. Poisons, Hardiness vs. Spells, Battle Training vs. Aberrations, Battle Training vs. Giants, Skill Affinity (Lore)}
Bonusfeats: %: Fighter
Lvl 01: Rogue(1): Background: Bully0, Luck of Heroes, {Sneak Attack (+1d6), Trapfinding}
Lvl 02: Fighter(1): Combat Expertise %, {Tower Shield Proficiency}
Lvl 03: Fighter(2): Toughness, Knockdown %
Lvl 04: Rogue(2): STR+1, {Evasion}, (STR=16)
Lvl 05: Bard(1): {Bardic Knowledge, Inspiration, Inspire Courage, Countersong, Fascinate, Armored Caster (Bard)}
Lvl 06: Red Dragon Disciple(1): {Natural Armor Increase}
Lvl 07: Red Dragon Disciple(2): {Dragon Abilities}, (STR=18)
Lvl 08: Red Dragon Disciple(3): STR+1, {Dragon Breath}, (STR=19)
Lvl 09: Red Dragon Disciple(4): (STR=21)
Lvl 10: Rogue(3): {Trap Sense (+1)}, *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 11: Rogue(4): {Uncanny Dodge}, *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 12: Rogue(5): STR+1, Improved Combat Expertise, (STR=22), *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 13: Rogue(6): *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 14: Rogue(7): *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 15: Rogue(8): Disarm, {Improved Uncanny Dodge}, *XP Penalty -20%*

Hitpoints: 167
BAB: 11
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Reflex/Will): 13/11/9
Skillpoints: 124
Max. Melee AB: 17, Max. Ranged AB: 12
Spell Casting: Bard(0)
Detailed Spell Casting (Level 0-9): Bard: 4/2
Sneak Attack: 4d6


I am pretty sure that you can use feats/spells while expertise is enabled so this build would allow for using knockdown/disarm while keeping the +6 to armor class

with expertise enabled this build would have an ac of 32 before any magical armor.

Attacks would be at +11, though it would get +6 to damage.

Damage reduction of 4/-

Evasion.

decent saves.

what do you think?

going to level 30 looks like this
================================================== ===


Rogue(19), Fighter(2), Bard(2), Red Dragon Disciple(7)
Race: Gold Dwarf

Alignment: Not lawful
Deity: -
STR: 15(29)
DEX: 13
CON: 15(17)
WIS: 10
INT: 13
CHA: 12
{Darkvision, Stonecunning, Hardiness vs. Poisons, Hardiness vs. Spells, Battle Training vs. Aberrations, Battle Training vs. Giants, Skill Affinity (Lore)}
Bonusfeats: §: Rogue, $: Fighter
Lvl 01: Rogue(1): Background: Bully0, Luck of Heroes, {Sneak Attack (+1d6), Trapfinding}
Lvl 02: Fighter(1): Combat Expertise $, {Tower Shield Proficiency}
Lvl 03: Fighter(2): Toughness, Knockdown $
Lvl 04: Rogue(2): STR+1, {Evasion}, (STR=16)
Lvl 05: Bard(1): {Bardic Knowledge, Inspiration, Inspire Courage, Countersong, Fascinate, Armored Caster (Bard)}
Lvl 06: Red Dragon Disciple(1): {Natural Armor Increase}
Lvl 07: Red Dragon Disciple(2): {Dragon Abilities}, (STR=18)
Lvl 08: Red Dragon Disciple(3): STR+1, {Dragon Breath}, (STR=19)
Lvl 09: Red Dragon Disciple(4): (STR=21)
Lvl 10: Rogue(3): {Trap Sense (+1)}, *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 11: Rogue(4): {Uncanny Dodge}, *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 12: Rogue(5): STR+1, Improved Combat Expertise, (STR=22), *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 13: Rogue(6): *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 14: Rogue(7): *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 15: Rogue(8): Disarm, {Improved Uncanny Dodge}, *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 16: Red Dragon Disciple(5): STR+1, {Blind-Fight}, (STR=23), *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 17: Bard(2): {Inspire Competence}, *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 18: Rogue(9): Iron Will, *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 19: Rogue(10): Crippling Strike §, *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 20: Rogue(11): STR+1, (STR=24), *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 21: Rogue(12): Epic Prowess, *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 22: Rogue(13): Defensive Roll §, *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 23: Rogue(14): Epic Precision, *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 24: Rogue(15): STR+1, (STR=25), *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 25: Rogue(16): Great Strength I, Opportunist §, (STR=26), *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 26: Rogue(17): *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 27: Rogue(18): Great Strength II, (STR=27), *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 28: Rogue(19): STR+1, Improved Sneak Attack I §, (STR=28), *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 29: Red Dragon Disciple(6): Great Strength III, (STR=29), (CON=17), *XP Penalty -20%*
Lvl 30: Red Dragon Disciple(7): *XP Penalty -20%*
Hitpoints: 350
BAB: 22
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Reflex/Will): 19/18/17
Skillpoints: 239
Max. Melee AB: 32, Max. Ranged AB: 24
Spell Casting: Bard(1)
Detailed Spell Casting (Level 0-9): Bard: 5/3 • 2/1
Sneak Attack: 11d6

[Kangleton]

Why would you try to make a tank out of a Rogue?

And why wouldn't you use Dwarven Defender?

[Product of Void]

good questions

Dwarven defender requires +7 attack and two feats, along with being lawful.

The bonus of damag reduction 3/- would kick in at level 13. You would never get the 6/- unless you get to level 16.

The +2 to dodge is about the same I get for RDD bonus to natural ac.

Defensive stance is NOT mobile you sit in stance then can move. Other big no no to it is it buffs con I don't use con buffs due to they can be dispelled. or even worse I could MOVE and loose the con buff == one dead dwarf.

why rogue? well first I get skill points .. :P just kidding.

1. Sneak attack 4d6. I can use expertise to boost AC then use feint or knockdown to take opperunity attacks.
2. Immune to rogues under level 12, can't be sneak attacked less they are 4 levels higher.

I guess it could be done with DD though you loose out on evasion and are open to sneak attacks.

fighter7/DD 6/ sorcer 1/ rdd 1

would also decrease strength by 2 as well.

[Kangleton]

I don't know what you're after, but when I think tank, I think "brick wall".

The thing that comes to mind with that said, is just a crap-ton of HP's. I'd go Fighter for seven levels, have maxed constitution, took toughness, then go Dwarven Defender for D12's after the Fighter's D10's.

You'd have, like... nearly 300HP by 15th level, plus that bit of DR. Improved Combat Expertise can be taken with the Fighter bonus feats, in addition to the Defender bonuses, as well as Dodge and all that nonsense. You'd be in Full Plate with a Tower Shield, and while your AC wouldn't be awesome, it wouldn't be laughable either.

To me, that's a tank. Just the guy that takes a huge beating.

[Product of Void]

I was pondering being able to be Offensive and Defensive.

While it could take alot of beating having a 7/- verses a 4/- and more hit points damage output would suffer.

fighter/dd charactor would be dependant only just str for damage. which if you put it all in con is not that great max 16 I figure.

1d10 +3 vs 1d10+6 (maybe 4d6 sneak as well).

The build I posted would be wearing full plate and full tower sheild it looses nothing but bard spell casting you don't use alot.

using improved expertise and just basic +0 armor that build would have around 32 ac.

get them +1 deflection cloak, +1 boots of hardines (meaning 15 more hit points +1 dodge), +1 sheild, +1 armor and down a potion of bark skin.
+8 ac

40ac

Keep in mind there are physical damage and spell damage. the saves for reflex are pretty darn good plus evasion so alot of spells will be easy to shrug off.


-------

is this kinda what you figured?

Fighter(7), Dwarven Defender(8)
Race: Shield Dwarf

Alignment: Any lawful
Deity: -
STR: 14
DEX: 13
CON: 19(22)
WIS: 11
INT: 13
CHA: 6
{Darkvision, Stonecunning, Hardiness vs. Poisons, Hardiness vs. Spells, Battle Training vs. Orcs, Battle Training vs. Goblins, Battle Training vs. Giants, Skill Affinity (Lore)}
Bonusfeats: §: Fighter
Lvl 01: Fighter(1): Background: Bully0, Luck of Heroes, Combat Expertise §, {Tower Shield Proficiency}
Lvl 02: Fighter(2): Dodge §
Lvl 03: Fighter(3): Toughness
Lvl 04: Fighter(4): CON+1, Knockdown §, (CON=20)
Lvl 05: Fighter(5)
Lvl 06: Fighter(6): Improved Combat Expertise §
Lvl 07: Fighter(7)
Lvl 08: Dwarven Defender(1): CON+1, {Defensive Stance, Improved Defense 1}, (CON=21)
Lvl 09: Dwarven Defender(2): {Uncanny Dodge}
Lvl 10: Dwarven Defender(3)
Lvl 11: Dwarven Defender(4): {Trap Sense (+1)}
Lvl 12: Dwarven Defender(5): CON+1, Mobility, (CON=22)
Lvl 13: Dwarven Defender(6): {Dwarven Defender Damage Reduction, Improved Uncanny Dodge}
Lvl 14: Dwarven Defender(7)
Lvl 15: Dwarven Defender(8): Disarm


Hitpoints: 271
BAB: 15
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Reflex/Will): 19/6/9
Skillpoints: 54
Max. Melee AB: 17, Max. Ranged AB: 16

[Azulfae]

Fighter/Barbarian min maxed half-orc

The Juggra build, it's all about armouring up to the top and not letting anything in, then whacking hard for maximum damage with the biggest weapon you can fit in one hand. AB suffers but because of uber str it's still average.

There is also the option to swap from a tower shield to a large shield or even no shield and rage + power attack. AC goes rubbish but is replaced with insane AB and Damage. This mode is usually used purely for slaying casters hard and fast.

Of course the down side to this build is RP, the character is a total retard. Though if you work out a persona to suit, the RP can be the most fun part.

No PrC requirement, no dependancy on any unlockable classes, decent gear can be used to tailor you towards a specific enemy type and a good buffer turns you into an engine of destruction.

The thing I like about the Juggra build is the total freedom. I feel there is nothing I need to request for him, no dependancy. Anything he can get ahold of gear or buff wise is a bonus. The character is the 'tank' amplifier of a non tank party's abilities.

Of course you can make more powerful builds and also using intelligence in the build you can get more skills and abilities but why bother when you can leave all that to the supporting tanks or other party members.

Position A, the spearhead is just HP, AC, AB and utter brick for brains wall material. Kill and maim and let the others do the thinking.

This sort of build works best for Half-orcs, Wood Elfs and Dwarves.

I considered Gray orcs but ECL just for wisdom that you don't need makes half-orcs more attractive.

[Kangleton]

All your tanks will perish against a 20th level Lauan.

Three of us sat down and powerbuilt the fecal matter out of her. She's the real tank.

[Verrath]

I had always thought this was an RP server, not a powerbuilding one

[Maevan2]

I had always thought this was an RP server, not a powerbuilding one

Ohhh, now i understand why my characters suck. Why didn't anybody tell me that a long time ago? *sighs*

[Thief Of Navarre]

Have to agree with Kangleton, tanks dont need a damage output... they dont acrue agro like they do on WoW :S

DD gets 7/- DR with dwarven racials, same armour class but with a dodge instead of natural (dodge stacks). Can get a further dodge bonus, a massive strength and constitution bonus and a fixed bonus to will saves (of which the DD already gets as high saves) and the uncanny dodge to avoid loosing their dexterity (dodge is prereq for DD) bonus to AC and their class and ability dodge bonuses to AC meaning its almost like their dodge bonus is a second skin unless your fighting an epic level rogue.

The only way you could improve that is with the deepwarden dwarven class. CON bonus to AC... where do I sign?

[Azulfae]

I had always thought this was an RP server, not a powerbuilding one

OMG that's coming from the uber level druid!

[Thief Of Navarre]

Yeah she is probably like a Druid10/Farmer3/Commoner1/Bard Sympathiser1 or something though

[Machiavelli]

I had always thought this was an RP server, not a powerbuilding one

So long as nobody rolls any Gnome/Halflings. Those are forbidden on pain of getting worked over with the ban hammer.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Whats the problem with gnomes and halflings?

My first character on any campaign/PW is ALWAYS a halfling! Warsling sniperssss GO!

[Machiavelli]

Whats the problem with gnomes and halflings?

My first character on any campaign/PW is ALWAYS a halfling! Warsling sniperssss GO!

Halflings are fine, as are Gnomes. Gnome/Halflings are verboten though.