Casters vs mundane characters?!?!?!

[Kaeldorn]

No, it's because the events contain criteria that can only be satisfied by magical people. Gamling didn't say, "Man, I wish I could scry people." He's suggesting that events have content that a mundane character would be useful for.

That content has a very limited scope. As Gamling said in the OP, it's because fighters have next to no resources to do much of anything except fighting, which is exactly what I was pointing out. What sort of content could a DM invent for fighter types to be useful? Killing swarms of weak enemies is fun sometimes (I have fond memories of clearing the sewers of HUNDREDS of spiders), but it gets old if done repeatedly and you can't weave a very interesting story around it.

[Gamling]

The point is more that whatever mundane characters can do with feats and skills, casters can do with spells.

Rangers can track, but wizards can scry.

Monks move super fast, casters have haste.

Fighters have full BAB, clerics have divine might.

And they can do much more. They just have so much more access to opportunities other classes can't. Like, let's say a monster escapes to the ethereal plane. The caster casts ethereal and makes chase while the rest of the group plays bingo.

[roguethree]

Anything involving training, guarding, resource allocation, and/or fighting works, so long as the context of the fighting isn't "Fighter v. Super-buffed Titan," which is what bad guys boil down to, typically.

[Raksha]

Actually, I can think of some ways around this limitation, but they require two things:

-- creative storytelling, and more importantly,
-- a willingness to kick d20 rules in the bum.

Take the context of the Big Evil Bad Guy. The characters go in, and beat on him, and the divine beatsticks are doing more than the martial beatsticks, but the DM is spamming Regeneration on him so nothing is sticking.

It is at this point, the DM nudges the fighter for... a parry roll? A Something That Fighters Are Good At roll? And then, the fighter is able to recognize a weakness in the bad guy's style. "He's holding the blade too close in!" shouts the fighter. "And he's slower on the left side! Concentrate your attacks!" The DM stops regening, and the baddie goes down, thanks to the awesomeness of the fighters' ability to recognize a combat style.

However, such opportunities need to be intentionally created, because mechanically, this couldn't happen. A weakness in a fighting style is represented by lowered AC, and when it's AB vs AC, the fighter doesn't win all that much without serious help.

[AsuraKing]

Ummm.... kinda... sorta... maybe being semi-on topic I would like to point out that just cause someone's a caster doesn't mean they get involved in events. I personally haven't seen any of the caster/non-caster event issue mostly because... *sighs and gulps hoping not to get smitten for what he's about to say next* If your character isn't part of the main social clique you basically get tossed aside and don't get involved in much of any events... Mostly because these events all seem to start in areas where the typical person would never go ICly... Before anyone mentions it's because of "factions" let me just point out that recently the only factions seeming to get much attention is the Black Hand/Triumverate-and-friends groups. I know I may sound like I'm complaining (which I am, not gunna hide that) but I've talked to MANY other players that seem to agree that the events seem to be based really on only two factions (other than some very very rare minor events).

ps: I know it'd kinda another topic but I actually logged on to make a post about this but I figured I wouldnt make a whole other topic just to say this as it seemed it might-kinda-sorta-maybe fit in a little.

/Endrant

[roguethree]

Black Hand/Triumverate-and-friends groups

This is a misconception. Dain gets a lot of events from Saulus, but that's due to Wrath, not the Triad. Cats like Darius and Aeria don't get all that sweet dm lovin'. Just me. Hate me.

but I've talked to MANY other players that seem to agree that the events seem to be based really on only two factions (other than some very very rare minor events).

In conflicts of good v. evil, factions representing good and evil will get the most looks. Without more dedicated DMs, it's hard to give all the factions the credit and attention they deserve.

[Root]

Sundren: The Musical!


-Anything you can do,
-I can do better.
-I can do anything
-Better than you.

No, you can't.
-Yes, I can. No, you can't.
-Yes, I can. No, you can't.
-Yes, I can,
-Yes, I can!

-Anything you can slay
-I can slay faster.
-Buffball or caster,
-I'm faster than you.

No, you're not. -Yes, I am.
No, you're not. -Yes, I am.
No, you're NOT!. -Yes, I am.
-Yes, I am!

I can track a gnome,
Across smoothened stone,
-I can Find any man,
-Anywhere in Sundren,

At level 10 I've fifteen AB!
-Not a lie?
No.
-I had more at 5!

-Anything you can hit,
-I can hit harder.
-I can hit anything harder than you.
No, you can't. (Normal Strike)
-Yes, I can. (Normal Strike) No, you can't. (Power attack)
-Yes, I can. (GMW) No, you can't. (Enhanced Power Attack)
-Yes, I can. (Divine Might) No, you can't. (Supreme Power Attack)
-Yes, I can. (Divine Favour) No, you can't. (Ki Critical Supreme Power Attack)
-Yes, I CAN! (Divine Power)

-Anything you can tank,
-I can tank safer,
-I can say anything
-Safer than you.
No, you can't. (Expertise)
-Yes, I can. (Divine Shield) No, you can't. (Improved Expertise)
-Yes, I can. (Magic Vestment) No, you can't. (Dwarven Defender Stance)
-Yes, I can. (Regenerate)
-YES, I CAN! (Stone Body)
I can take a poison,
Save it more than often,
-I can drink far more,
-And just cast restore!
I can get in any safe.
-With just a needle and pin?
Sure.
-I can teleport in!

-Any spell you can save,
-I can save better,
-I can save anything
-Better than you.
No, you can't. (Great Fortitude)
-Yes, I can. (Death Ward) No, you can't. (Steadfast Determination)
-Yes, I can. (Spell Mantle) No you can't. (Monk SR 11+Level)
-Yes I can! (Spell Resistance 12+Level)

I can grapple ogres,
-I can knock them over,
I can lift two greatswords,
-I can summon Balors
-I can do most anything!
Can you be Faithless?
-Seems I can, yes!

-Any role you can dol,
-I can do better,
-We need no more classes,
-Just casters, it's true.
Yes you do. (Picks a Lock)
-No we don't. (Casts Knock) Yes you do. (Knockdowns)
-No we don't. (Word of Faith's) Yes you do. (Monk Speeds)
-No we don't. (Persist Hastes) Yes you do, you do, you do! (Tracks)
-No we don't, no we don't, no we don't! (Scries)

[Dragor]

@Root

Persistant Haste has been removed! So there!


And you forgot Living Undeath :P

[Seheren]

And to be fair just because your in either of those factions, regardless of your level/rank, you can still be ignored like anyone else.

[Dragor]

Do I need to find my old rant about cliquism?

[Doubtful]

Know how many times my DM avatar has had events run for it? Never. And it's still stuck at level 1.

It's not just you guys being left out!

[TakenByTheStormX]

Doubt, I'll have one of my chars run an event for your DM avatar.

[Doubtful]

I'm all of a flutter at the prospect.

I hope there'll be cake.

[TakenByTheStormX]

Why wouldn't there be cake?

[Darkened Skies]

As was foreseen in the OP, I'm closing this thread. Yes, DMs have limited time, and yes the most pro-active people get all the DM attention, but you know why?

Because they're our friends? No.
Because they're our favourites? Maybe.
But why? Because they ASK. They make threads in the requests forums, and they send requests to the DM channel.

Any thread which focuses on bitching and whining about not getting enough DM attention is going to be closed, because people get what they ask for. If you have a plan, TELL US. If you want to achieve something, stop bitching about how unfair the world is, and get off your IC ass and go do it! When a DM is online, poke them, ask if they'll help, if they don't have time, try again next time.

I find the concept that you only get events run for you if you're a DM's friend to be offensive and rude, and I'll treat it as such. Yes your request is going to be denied if it's to become a super human with +5 gear, or buy Sundren and rule it as the Supreme High Adjudicator, but unless you ask, don't even bother whining about it.