How to: Detect stealthers with skill alone!

[The Butcher]

This is where the math breaks down. Adding one point to listen doesn't subtract one point from move, and so it's 10% to roll within detecting range if the mover rolls a 1 (5%).

35 listen and 54 move silently.

5% chance to reach 55, for both, so it's 5% within 5%; 0.25%

36 listen and 54 move silently.

10% to hit 55 or 56, 10% for move silently to hit 55 or 56. It's then 10% chance within a 10% chance; 1%

[roguethree]

No. For a 55 to be successful, the mover must still roll a 1. In order to have that 10% chance at success on a given roll, the person moving must roll a 1, which is 5%. The 5% is constant.

[Lothoir]

For warhammer, but math is math:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Basics_of_Mathhammer

Google Math Hammer for more articles than you'll really need.

[The Butcher]

Right, I see. So if they roll a 2, you have a 5% chance of meeting it. If they roll a 1, you now have a 10% of meeting it.

0.5% of them rolling a 1 and you meeting it, then a 0.25% of you meeting their 2 if they make it.

So a 0.75% chance if your listen is 36 and their move silently is 55?

[Seheren]

Make spot a class skill for more classes. My paladin of Helm would take full spot, if he could.

[Cornuto]

Rather not, otherwise its...
Make tumble a class skill for more classes. My wizard would take full tumble, if he could.
Make use magic device a class skill for more classes, my barbarian would take full use magic device, if he could.

Etc.

But as I said earlier, multi class and take able learner. Problem solved.

[roguethree]

I don't think Tumble and UMD are good parallels. It's fairly obvious why a career soldier in heavy armor isn't good at backflips, but it's not so obvious why a guardsman shouldn't be good at spotting thieves.

[Kaeldorn]

I don't think Tumble and UMD are good parallels. It's fairly obvious why a career soldier in heavy armor isn't good at backflips, but it's not so obvious why a guardsman shouldn't be good at spotting thieves.

That has always seemed rather strange to me as well. You'd say that most guards are fighters or warriors, too. The way class skills are given out doesn't make a whole lot of sense in many cases. Just take a look at knowledge and crafting skills, for instance. It's just odd to me that a wizard is the best weaponsmith and a paladin generally knows jack about local customs and laws in vanilla D&D.

[Lollercide]

I don't think Tumble and UMD are good parallels. It's fairly obvious why a career soldier in heavy armor isn't good at backflips, but it's not so obvious why a guardsman shouldn't be good at spotting thieves.

Classes: Druid, Monk, Ranger, Rogue, Spirit shaman; Arcane archer, Arcane trickster, Assassin, Duelist, Dwarven defender, Invisible blade, Neverwinter Nine, Red dragon disciple, Shadow Thief of Amn, Shadowdancer

Hint: it's because the guardsman didn't take a class with spot, and some jackass hired him knowing that he sucked at spotting. Mystery solved.

[Kaizen]

That has always seemed rather strange to me as well. You'd say that most guards are fighters or warriors, too. The way class skills are given out doesn't make a whole lot of sense in many cases. Just take a look at knowledge and crafting skills, for instance. It's just odd to me that a wizard is the best weaponsmith and a paladin generally knows jack about local customs and laws in vanilla D&D.

I think that comes down to simple mechanics and skill points + int modifier for the individual classes.

[Cornuto]

lolwat?

[roguethree]

Hint: it's because the guardsman didn't take a class with spot, and some jackass hired him knowing that he sucked at spotting. Mystery solved.

*sets the troll on fire*

[GRCrush]

I don't think Tumble and UMD are good parallels. It's fairly obvious why a career soldier in heavy armor isn't good at backflips, but it's not so obvious why a guardsman shouldn't be good at spotting thieves.

On the same account why someone trained in the use of daggers for their entire life isnt high AB

Tell ya what I will give your fighters and paladins spot if us rogues get high AB

[Raksha]

You know what I think I've learned from all this controversy?

Fourth Edition got it right, after all.

*flees!*

[Kaeldorn]

On the same account why someone trained in the use of daggers for their entire life isnt high AB

Fighters with weapon focus, greater weapon focus, weapon specialisation, greater weapon specialisation and dirty fighting do actually get top of the line attack bonus.

Oh wait, you meant rogues? Truth be told, rogues generally don't practice fighting their entire lives, or even anything close to it. The thug types in criminal organisations will usually lean more towards fighter than rogue.

Roguethree (who is not a rogue, strangely enough) isn't really suggesting that fighters and paladins would get spot skill for free, you know. It's not like their 2 skill points per level are magically increased if spot were to become a class skill for them

Fourth Edition got it right, after all

4th edition got some things right, and a lot of other things wrong.