Wizard vs. Sorceror - Spellcasting power

[Sammael]

Recently I've been wondering about the comparative spellcasting power of these two classes. The way I understand it, in D+D Sorc is supposed to be the 'casting powerhouse' class, able to throw massive amounts of magic around from a limited suite of spells, and Wiz is supposed to be a more subtly powerful, tactically flexible caster, with one of two less spells per day but with a far greater suite of spells to choose from.

Is that how the two classes are meant to function? And do you think they actually do function that way in NWN2?

[rustediron]

hm... I have to say, I prefer wizards, due to the fact they can specialise. That increases the DC of their spells, doesn't it?

[Rhifox]

Personally I don't see any benefit in sorcerer at all. I've found very few situations where having more spells per day has really been necessary. The huge repertoire of spells I have for any situation has proven to be much more valuable for me.

The biggest benefit that sorcerers have is spontaneousness--the ability to cast whatever spell they want, when they want. Wizards you really have to know what you want and you're screwed if you prepared wrong.

[Rhazeal]

NWN2, being cast-rest-cast based, offers too little scope for it to actually work that way. Sorcerers are limited, yes, but Wizards' do not have a buttload of spells to choose from, either.

Both classes can hurl spells left and right, one just needs to rest a bit more often. The other might need a rogue

[Kaybrie]

Sorcerers are power houses, you know how? Metamagic, you can just use it on a whim on any spell that you possess, the wizard, if he knows what he's going up against, is a far better class, but a sorcerer enjoys encounter to encounter flexibility simply through using a very wide array of damaging spells (Just get Fireball/flamearrow, still, empower, maximize and quicken spell and you can spam those two spells near endlessly, and go up to higher tiers, especially if you add arcane scholar of candle keep).

Generally a wizard should be better as they should be approaching every situation with knowledge of what they're fighting, or not approaching it at all... But for raw damage dealing power/buffing power not many can beat out a sorcerer.

[Sammael]

I suppose it comes down to what spells you see as really necessary for a caster to have, and what level of saves you're facing.

I mean, my sorc will have a spell DC of around 37 when I'm finally finished building him (that will be a looong time). That should be enough to deal with most enemies, but I have a feeling there's probably still some that will be able to out-save that DC (don't really know). If I built him as a wizard he'd end up with something like 40 though, due to extra feats.

The spells I'll take with him should be enough that he can contribute to thwarting most challenges he faces, but may not make it possible for him to take on very specific challenges, for e.g. (as I faced on an old nwn1 server) a high-level enemy that's immune to an entire spell class. But then, he'll be able to add another couple of hundred damage to the average fight than a similar wizard, due to extra spells per day.

I think that perhaps the two classes are a little too similar to my taste. I'm not sure how you'd change either of them to be more different without nerfing one or the other though. It's a notty problem..

[Dark presence]

Personally, I think spontaneous casting is greatly overrated. While its great for metamagic and generally not running out of the 'right' spell whereas non-spontaneous casters might, nothing beats the versatility of normal casters.

If a wizard didn't memorize the right spell, they can potentially run away and come back tomorrow. If a sorcerer didn't pick the right spell, they are screwed.

I think this gets a lot more obvious when you start looking at the favored soul vs. cleric though, because mages are typically DD or CC, and even with a huge spell list, they are mostly different ways of doing the same things. Healer/buffers on the other hand, have a lot of different things to deal with, especially in DND.

[Raksha]

The place where spontaneous casting really comes into its own is where resting is limited. In PnP, if the wizard hasn't prepared, he's screwed. A sorcerer, if they have the right spell, will aways have it.

NWN2 cuts down on this in two ways:

1.) Wizards can generally rest whenever they feel like it, meaning that they can retreat and almost instantly reprepare, and

2.) Sorcerers are not allowed to cast lower-level spells from higher-level slots, as in PnP.

I have, however, found spontaneous casting to be an INCREDIBLE help for hybrid spellcasters. When trying to go a long time without resting, and mostly hitting things with a sword, it helps to be able to drop a new Mirror Image / Displacement / Recitation whenever you need it. Also very handy for helping out your group, as you can hit them up with whatever spells they need without having to re-prepare. Not to mention that the advent of dispel-on-hit weapons means that you'll need rebuff for what you lost.

All of this is, of course, mitigated by the ability to quickly rest. Sorcerers and warlocks grow comparitively stronger the more restricted resting is.

[sparkeh]

I have always been a Sorcerer (please someone edit the title to be spelt correctly (anal I know!)) fan.

I like being able to pick from my char's full range of known spells and not worry about not picking the correct subset. I would take the versatility of casting over the versatility of known spells every time.

[Sammael]

I have always been a Sorcerer (please someone edit the title to be spelt correctly (anal I know!)) fan.

I like being able to pick from my char's full range of known spells and not worry about not picking the correct subset. I would take the versatility of casting over the versatility of known spells every time.

Fair play to you on that point. But would you take versatility of casting over versatility known spells and higher spell DCs? I mean, has anybody ever come across the dreaded situation where their sorc has been unable to hit things for shit with their spells + the enemy is immune to magic missile etc?

[Rawor]

Sorcerors are infinitely cooler. While wizards are inside, reading books, sorcerors are out blowing shit up and consorting with dragons.

[ThePaganKing]

I see the sorcerer as more combat oriented. They are the mages that go out into the world to use their magic, not to go out and find magic (as wizards would).

They are also more versatile in combat and especially, as others have stated, if you cannot rest.

I have also seen sorcerers beat wizards most of the time in combat. I had a sorcerer/palemaster in NWN1 and he beat most wizards in mage combat.

[Scavar]

In NWN2 I don't think the difference is as great as it is in Tabletop. In the campaign I'm playing now we have a Wizard and Sorc, and they do very different things. So /shrug.

[Infernal_Havok]

Its also way infinitely easier to play someone with a high charisma than someone with a Genius intelligence. Many Wizard players get shafted on Rp because the attribute is harder to apply in my opinion. Although, wizards as a whole are methodical and study their enemies, developing specialized ways to deal with them on a case by case basis it also helps to have foresight from a superior intellect, but that is very difficult to play on in a PW without it being considered metagaming.

Also there are alot more applications that wizards can find for their skills than sorcerers and as a organized guild, wizards would pwn almost everything in the end due to their versatility and planning. In a spontaneous battle, they would lose out, but most "decently intelligent" wizards wouldn't involve themselves in a situation like that. They would be in their mage tower sulking, seething and elaborately plotting the demise of their target(s).. MUUHAHAHahaha!!!

[Rhifox]

Its also way infinitely easier to play someone with a high charisma than someone with a Genius intelligence.

I don't agree with that. Nearly every super high charisma player I have seen has not known how to RP charismatically. Intelligence is easier to RP because, in general, you either don't really need intelligence in most situations, or in the ones you do, you can pass it off as having not experienced or studied it yet. (Intelligence is the capacity for Knowledge, not necessarily actually having it. Lore is knowledge, Spellcraft is magic knowledge). Intelligence can also be applied on a singular basis... a character with high Intelligence need not necessarily have broad knowledge (despite us only having a single 'Lore' skill in-game instead of all the various Knowledge ([...]) skills), they may just have knowledge in a single devoted field (such as magic). Intelligence is also something that can be built on by the player--IE, if you want to have a character who's smart about magic, it's fairly easy to go out and research magic. On the other hand, if you want a character who's charismatic, that's not something you can really 'learn', you're either charismatic or you aren't.

Cha something you are using in nearly all RP situations, and is much easier to notice when the person isn't charismatic.