NWN2 Crafting

[Lockindal]

+X items should be at least half common.

The problem with low magic worlds is that it throws off the balance significantly and makes battle clerics and paladins way over the top in power. I mean, they're over the top whether the gear is there or not, but considering they can make any weapon they wield +5, and in a cleric's case, any armor or shield they wield +5, it's even more over the top if the gear is not there.

[Kaybrie]

The problem with low magic worlds is that it throws off the balance significantly and makes battle clerics and paladins way over the top in power. I mean, they're over the top whether the gear is there or not, but considering they can make any weapon they wield +5, and in a cleric's case, any armor or shield they wield +5, it's even more over the top if the gear is not there.

Yes, it's one of the things that happens when you play on a Low Magic server, Clerics tend to get more powerful... I don't see where you got the Paladin thing, with the exception of Holy Sword, which they get at level 16 (Pretty damn high), and only is REALLY effective against evil creatures...

As for Clerics, they're broken as is... To make magic items common would make it so this was no longer a low-magic server... Which is what it's supposed to be. This is an RP server, so I'm really not seeing why so many are obsessing over character balance... When it's the roleplay and content that should actually be discussed.

[Lockindal]

Because in PNP, magic items are very very very common (just look at how easy it is to craft, and almost every campaign I have been in it has been easy enough to look for a store that sells suitable items). I am sorry if you disagree, but it is the way it has been for a very long time. 2nd Ed is dead (which is unfortunate because IMO it was far more balanced.) I stress about magic items, because otherwise the server will be just like it was before: Full of Paladins and Clerics. Boring as hell. I want to play a rogue, but I don't want to be pushed around by all the "uber" people.

And Paladins also get GMW (3rd level, IIRC), and blessed weapon is very useful as well.

And why is it everyone has it in their thick skulls that RP servers = have to be low magic? I'll never understand that concept - RP servers should be about character depth and growth, and part of growth is inheriting magic.

[Kaybrie]

Read the Dungeon Masters guide before you start spewing things about how easy it is to make magic items... For 1, any character above level 1 is uncommon... And I'm not talking about people around level 10, I'm talking about level 3 Adepts (You know, that class that has D6 hit points, a rogues attack bonus, high ref, and 6 skill points... That's it... Nothing else.) being uncommon, you'll probably only find one such person in a typical town, and he'll be like a local hero.

You're largest cities probably only have a couple dozen people overall above level 10... Only 1 or 2 of whom happen to be wizards/sorcerers/clerics/druids or whatever... Most of whom have far better things to do then sit around crafting magical items for only the few occasional adventurers whom drop by to grab them? It takes a large amount of time and costs to make a magical item so why would wizards and the like, who'd prefer to be studying or clerics preferring to be out there challenging injustices and whatnot, just sit around making enchantments. For whom mind you by the way? I'm sure Joe farmer isn't going to need a +1 flaming great axe anytime soon.


And finally, low magic is simply the choice that was made regarding the level of magic in Sundren, why can't you get it through your thick skull that it simply doesn't matter.... As it's an RP server, and no part of character growth has anything to do with the acquisition of magical items.

Regardless, this is off topic, so I'm just going to pop out of this little argument right now.

[undeadsteak]

Aye. Pushed around by the uber? Why do you care if somone elses char is stronger then you? This is an rp server. You get +5 items then they can get +5 as well, so as your claiming, your still going to be pushed around by the uber. If you dont like being weak, don't. go play one of the "uber" classes. Rogues have many other skills that make up for what you call weak, such as all those skill points they get. Low Magic server is much better. Idon't want to see everyone running around with 2d6 flaming long swords. "Hey, where did you get that?"


"Oh, at the blacksmith."
Yeah, thats going to be real fun. And it'll make loot useless as well, one of the fun things about Sundren was the custom loot you could get. Once everyone is with 2d6 flaming longswords, they won't care about DM Events giving special loot. Sundren is a low-magic server, and i'd like it to stay as one. And seriously, what does character devolpment have to do with magical items...?

[Esteten]

I'm just saying that seeing someone casting a lvl 8th spell or having a flaming weapon should really make them look way above average, even way above heroic. Not mediocre.. (sorry if you don't get my point. I'm quite tired atm. >.< )

[Lockindal]

I never said people should be able to go buy something powerful from the blacksmith. I think you guys misinterpreted what I said by "half common" - i meant that they should be able to be found. Sundren, by the way, was not low magic (at least not while I was playing), you could buy several +X items from multiple shops, and magic loot was not rare (i found a 1d4 sonic damage longsword my second day playing... and I didn't play that much). Most of the high levels had very powerful items, as well. That's not a bad thing, it's just a comment

And yes, people above level 1 ARE rare. I never said they weren't. Magical items on people, however, who AREN'T the norm, are far from rare.

So why don't we just level cap the server? Much easier that way, no? Makes a lot more sense. Want low magic? Be low level too. At least then, it makes complete sense, and nothing is impeded. Also increases the challenge. But in a high level environment, expect high magic, as well, because that is how it is. High levels create and find mid-high level magic. Low levels create and find low level magic. This is how games are designed.

And this is about crafting, I simply think that you should be able to craft powerful items and weapons - just like in PNP. It should take time, and a lot of resource gathering, but it should still be able to be done by those who are high level.

::shrugs:: I actually prefer level caps anyway, in a straight up RP server. But no one likes level caps, because they can't get into the situation of being so much stronger than others. That's the last I'll say on this off-topic matter (which, for the record, wasn't started by me, or at least I wasn't intending to)

EDIT: See the posts by Lallendos about how awesome it is to inherit a special item. Items *ARE* part of character development - they give you something to be proud of, something that makes you stand out. I never said people should run around wielding +20 weapons of destruction, nor do I think they should. I just think the crafting should be diverse and there. Which is what this topic is about, no? I pointed out the cleric thing when people were saying that +1 weapons shouldn't be available till level 8. That just makes no sense. And next time, before spewing off things like "level 1 adepts"; think about this: when's the last time you saw a campaign made up of level 1 adepts and commoners, or hell, even had them as the enemies the PCs faced? Never? MAYBE once? Yeah... NOT the norm.

[Kaybrie]

*Isn't going to dignify Lockindal's absurd post with a response beyond this comment.*


So I was thinking, on the whole craft thing... Seeing as what's not primarily being discussed here isn't crafting but instead enchanting, making it so you require higher level spells to create more powerful enchantments? Like, I was somewhat baffled by how you could create a +5 weapon with a gem and a light spell... Meaning that basically any character who took 5 levels in wizard could create any magical enchantment upon a piece of equipment, when enchanting and crafting should be two different things... The fighter makes the rockin' Adamantine Bastard Sword, the wizard adds the sparkling effects...

Just a thought.

[Lockindal]

Actually, 5 levels is NOT enough to make something +5.

You need like a 15th level caster to do it, IIRC, so at least 11 levels wizard with practised spellcaster. I know it's higher than 5, anyway.

What I thought was absurd about NWN2 default crafting was the fact you only needed a single gem, a single spell, and a weapon, and BAM it was done. You could even combine elements that made no sense being on the same weapon.

It should take multiple resources and should take time to complete, not some instantaneous reaction through a single gem.

[Esteten]

And this is about crafting, I simply think that you should be able to craft powerful items and weapons - just like in PNP. It should take time, and a lot of resource gathering, but it should still be able to be done by those who are high level.

that's what I was trying to say all the time! Thanks for putting words on it

Cheers