More Things to Kill!

[Jai_V]

I voted 7 - 8, but I also agree with the more popular 13 - 14. These seem to be the sticking points for most of the folks I talk to. Truthfully, I'd like more dungeons/quests for every level, with the alternate routes of evil and good to take, with consideration to lawful and chaotic being mostly based on dialogue role-play.

If I were a little more talented with the bricks and mortar of NWN2, I'd throw some stuff together, myself.

[BedlamX]

Id' say all of the above, I'd like to see a persistent dungeon who's critters scaled with level.

This would be very nice. I've seen it on a few servers, but as I am completely ignorant of scripting stuff, I have no idea how hard it was to do.

[Espada]

Id' say all of the above, I'd like to see a persistent dungeon who's critters scaled with level. If not that the 13-14 range because leveling really slows down past the initial quests around level 10 and this would add a bit of variety.

[nezzerscape]

A lot of good points are made here. I would have to say levels for different character types have easier times with different things. My dwarf (cleric) can rock up to and through Mossdale. My fighter needed more help, but with help has the damage output to go thought Veritas and Zinc mines.

In general independent to how you slice it, I would think something between the Cartel and the Veritas. Perhaps something between Mossdale and the Cartel.

I do think that the current areas require different parties for all to make it through, assuming you can find people to venture with. Sense the campfire has been done away with it seems one simply has to wait by the area for others to come along. Not complaining I think it is more realistic for everyone NOT to sit at the same campfire, just an observation.

BedlamX make a good point that there is not much of a mix skill set in the areas (sorry if I miss understood), thus not much diversity in parties. In PnP we always had 1-2 fighter types, thief, cleric and/or magicuser.

It would be cool to require a rogue to go beyond a certain point, but require fighters to get to that point and have some other requirement that a mage/cleric can only get though (requires fire or something, perhaps concentration).

There are many areas I have not found parties to venture in (perhaps it is the time in which I can log in) so the above is based on limited exposure.

[gbbishop]

Just so you know GBB, the Shekinessi are available for that same CR range. You'll find them in that lava area of the mountains: Smoldering Burrow, I think it's called.

Was in there once... maybe it's just me but I did not really enjoy that area. I have not been there in the last several months so perhaps it is no onger the way I remember it.

It is, if memory serves, the borrow is on a much smaller scale when compared to Veritas. Which IS, by the way, incredibly fun... if morally gray.

Veritas:

Multiple levels
Increasing difficulty the farther you go.
Multiple mini bosses.
Climactic end.
High Risk High Reward.

All in all a perfect dungeon.

The snakes:

Well...
It's a cave
It is tangled and the challenges were either flaming dung beetles that offered little challenge or a pod of hissing warlocks which DO provided a solid challenge but well there seemed to be too little to gain for the risk in that area.

Perhaps working with that area.. expanding upon it... a subterranean temple perhaps....

While an alternative to fighting Veritas... I certainly do not consider it equal to the storming the Schild.

The undead kind of overlap Veritas as well... or they used to.. have not had much exploration in there since the newcropolis went up. The old one was great with progressive challenge and so on. Another great example of a dungeon imho. It just started at a lower level range (for most) than Veritas.

[roguethree]

It's a massive amount of work, I could have just one person spend months to make that happen.

We just don't have enough volunteers with enough experience at the moment.

I don't doubt it, and my experience is far from unsatisfactory. You guys do good things.

[DM_Equinox]

There are a few places aready that invoke such checks. You won't be barred from them, but failing the check certainly hampers progress

[Saulus]

I'd like to see areas that take advantage of the climb/balance/jump/etc. skills. Have an interactive object that asks for one of those checks, and passing the check grants you access to an area inaccessible by pc's without those skills.

It's a massive amount of work, I could have just one person spend months to make that happen.

We just don't have enough volunteers with enough experience at the moment.

[roguethree]

I'd like to see areas that take advantage of the climb/balance/jump/etc. skills. Have an interactive object that asks for one of those checks, and passing the check grants you access to an area inaccessible by pc's without those skills.

As far as CR goes...*shrug*...I tend to not make jacked up builds, so wherever I go, I'll be with a party, and therefore, entertained.

[Intrepid42]

As I'm sure the devs have abundantly recognized by this point, a challenge to one group is not a challenge to another group. While it might be challenging to a classic wizard/fighter/cleric party, there also could be a group of 3 Stormlords smashing through the place and accumulating tons and tons of riches.

There are some things that help promote balanced parties, as staff will be well aware and use already. High DR doors and traps promote use of rogues (especially randomly spawned unavoidable divine traps... ). Giving the enemies dispelling spells also decreases reliance on buffs to some extent. In my opinion there are always options, but they are not ideal ones. They can increase builder/testing workload a lot, and can also lead to a lot of dissatisfaction from players unhappy with "forced party" play.

[ParadoxicalAnonymity]

Muy intersante.

[Phantom Lamb]

Just so you know GBB, the Shekinessi are available for that same CR range. You'll find them in that lava area of the mountains: Smoldering Burrow, I think it's called.

[ParadoxicalAnonymity]

I have to mirror both of gbbishop's sentiments.

I've had quite a few characters in the past that would not go near the Veritas, because they felt they were not to be effectively attacked, due to the political climate surrounding that issue.

I think it would be extraordinarily helpful if there was a counterpart around that 12-16 level that didn't have as large of an ethical debate amongst it. I'm not saying you need to throw in baby-consuming, genocidal drow to kill. Just something not quite as controversial, perhaps. As mentioned in the topic's original post, an alternative to that level range.

And, also, as gbbishop has pointed out, not all characters go to places at the same levels. Classes can make such an enormous difference. Cleric/Favored Souls can just stomp through content, even solo. Where as a monk/fighter/rogue is going to either be killing things for 4xp a pop, or going with buffers. This isn't a complaint, in the least, simply that knowing what level everything is entirely intended for isn't entirely clear.

Recently I was getting 64xp a pop on lizards with my monk. Before that, I was only getting about 20xp a pop on Cartel. Is there a sweet spot we should be looking for, so we know what level is 'intended?'

Levels 1-5 go by pretty quick once you know the server and bang out all the initial fetch&carry quests. The slow down seems to happen around level 10-15, so I'd suggest adding more content for the 13-14 range.

I'd also love to see a super hard OMG we're all gonna die, high risk/high reward dungeon that is designed to give fits to groups of level 20's.

I can understand this, as when you hit that final level 20, it feels as if adventuring is pointless, unless you just want to grind stags. But there's a reason why I think these things can always provide some nasty fallout, as evidenced on servers I've played in the past that have done this. The primary reason being that while it might seem high risk at first, it won't remain high risk once people understand it.

As I'm sure the devs have abundantly recognized by this point, a challenge to one group is not a challenge to another group. While it might be challenging to a classic wizard/fighter/cleric party, there also could be a group of 3 Stormlords smashing through the place and accumulating tons and tons of riches.

And then if you try to balance it to a group made up of a bunch of powerbuilds, it becomes nigh impossible for traditional groups, where people just stop inviting along burdensome baggage characters.

The irony in such things is that it just further separates that dichotomy of the polar extremes of Divine War Machines and your traditional combatant roles. To be clear, this isn't a veiled attempt to rally for some sort of equalizing of forces. Hardly.

Simply that every server I've seen this sort of thing created on has just resulted in powerbuild characters farming the crap out of such areas, once they learn how to, and then just amassing even more ridiculous wealth/rewards. If that's genuinely something the staff was going for, cool.

Otherwise, I've found it to be a counterproductive measure.

[gbbishop]

I want to see a counter part to veritas.. specially since most of my character dont see any IC point to killing them... never have. I know you are trying to get to the point where all the factions have "raidable" areas... i dunno really.

I also don't know what these level ranges pertain to. Some of my groups (the dwaven ones) can rock the shite out of the ogres at like 6-7th level. but my "less cool" groups (the humans) can't hit that til like 10th.

I remember there was talk of posting suggested level ranges for existing areas did anyone ever do that?

[Thief Of Navarre]

I don't have much of a problem getting to level 7 or 8. Considering the vast majority of my characters are kinda wimpy, that should say a little about the ease of leveling to that point (note "ease" not "speed" of leveling). I only have on ethat has hit level 12 and he is a pure fighter type (with 3 levels of Thayan Knight). So far, all the others are kinda stuck in the 8-10 range with almost nothing they can survive at long enough to level, so I would have to say the 9-14 level will be tough for me.

I know...kinda off-topic, but...one thing I would love to see added in the new areas (no matter what level they are made for) is more opportunities for non-combat types. Clerics/druids rule on Sundren with mages close behind (at higher levels). And fighters can do really well if they can get decent gear (to a point). It seems rogues and other sneaky types have a really tough time unless they have good pals that don't mind babysitting them or the group wants to maximize their gold intake and grabs one for the locked chests and stuff. Some kind of dungeon that requires old-school teamwork would be nice. I kinda miss needing the old style party of a fighter, a rogue, a mage, and a cleric.

Guess I'm showin my age again.

Yeah the only place with tricks and traps is the cartel fortress really. I suppose you can only truly get that feeling of immersion in events where the DM is trying to include everyone i.e. Evil to smite, locks to bust, darkness to be cleansed, walls to scale, puzzled to solve and so on and so forth.