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  • Planned Server Population Changes

    Players may have noticed a great deal of crashing during transitions. I have been monitoring this issue and looking for information from Obisidian as well.

    My findings are there may be a distinct relationship between the frequency of the crashes and the packet timeout. (* see below for more information on these points) This may be directly related to lag on the server. Some of this lag is also a bug in the server. For unknown reasons the server will randomly flood a client with the same packets over and over (**). This is why lag may be erratic at times. I am certain this happens to us many times a day.

    Another issue is that Obsidian did not implement a fix put into NWN1 where DM's joining a server are Subject to the player limit.

    In an effort to correct these problems I am implementing a few changes.

    1. I am introducing a player location tool. Once complete a player will be able to use the tool to find areas where players are. Not specific players, but you will see something along the lines of "There's one person here, there's a huge group here." and so on. At the same time I will be implementing a tool to set a player anonymous if they are attempting to mask their presence.

    The idea behind this change is that players are congregating in locations which -Greatly- increases the bandwidth load (***). The number of people congregated multiplies required bandwidth a great deal. So we will be encouraging players to split up a bit more as to help alleviate this issue. The tool will help people find others to RP with instead of relying on waiting at public areas for large groups to appear.

    2. I will be adding a -soft- limit to the server. This means that if a player joins after the soft limit is reached. They will be notified that the server is at capacity and will be removed from the server. The reason for this is so DM's are always able to join the server. So the limit will be inside of the module, not at the screen that shows current population.

    3. I may bring the limit for players down if players still congregate in huge groups. There is many locations that barely see the light of players. We encourage people to visit these locations.


    Footnotes:
    *: NWN and NWN2 use a network protocol known as UDP. In this protocal data is sent as packets with the possibility of being lost during transfer or out of order. It is the software's job the manage the error recovery for this protocol. It is theorized that the crashes may be occurring due to loss of the packets or timeout where the packet may have taken longer than anticipated.

    Personally, I would have used TCP/IP and let the operating systems handle negotiation (Games like WoW use TCP). However, NWN2 is built from NWN1 which was designed with older hardware in mind. I'm certain they simply did not wish to redesign the whole network layer.

    **: For unknown reasons NWN2 Server will suddenly flood one or more people with the same packet data. This may also be attributed to their packet management of UDP. It will result in nearly a locked up state for all other clients since the network is being flooded. The only work around for this problem known is the client who is being flooded must disconnect (They may not know whom they are) or the server must be rebooted (It happens randomly so reboots out of nowhere is a problem). I am told 1.06 should fix this problem if they figure it out.

    ***: Packets are pretty much multiplied by the number of people who have to intercept them. For example, two people chatting would happen as this:

    Player A and Player B are in a room.

    Player A say: "Hi" which is sent to the server.

    The server sends "Hi" back to Player A and to Player B.

    Now, imagine if 12 people are in the area. "Hi" is sent to all 12 people and then naturally they all respond, hitting all of the 12 people again. Not to mention text seems to flow alot more often and actions when alot of people are indeed around. Therefore it greatly increases required bandwidth if 40 people are on and all generally within range of each other.

  • #2
    I visit other places as much as possible...but crashes occur more in areas like Sestra Plateau and Viridale Forest then Sharahan Hills.. :/

    And amen to the ''x players in this area'' thing. GREAT job if that works.

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    • #3
      The thing is...are the players crashing in places that are populated, or are they crashing in random/non-populated places? If its the former, then everything GBX mentioned is valid...but if its the latter, then the problem is more than just bandwidth and packets . The reason I bring this up is...when I crash its never when going to largely populated area like the shaharan hills where theres tons of adventurers. It was in areas like goblin caves level 2, the temple of helm, and the gate of the Sunderer (which are non-populated places). But thats just me. If the majority of players crash in highly populated areas, then what I'm proposing is invalid.

      However a thing to note is that on a previous server I used to play on, 100% of my crashes were going to largely populated areas...its just here on Sundren that my crashing is atypical (going to unpopulated areas). But again it might be coincidence as I am one person out of the 60 or so players on this server.
      "My dual blades shall seek those who defy nature's art. For the spirit of the forest lives within my heart."
      ~Telemir Arelieth - Ranger of Chauntea

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      • #4
        I crash in Viridale and Sestra, when theres 0 people in both areas. :|

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        • #5
          I haven't crashed at all, in the last around 50 area loads or so. Not one crash.. My crashes mostly come from quitting to desktop in nwn2..

          Also, i've noticed that my firewall seems to handle the packet flood from the nwn 2 server quite well, though it does mean that ingame, i'll get disconnected from the server, but without being noted that in game (eg. it will look like the server has crashed, but wont timeout) so in those cases i generally alt-tab, check my firewall, and if it alerts me, i will just have to relog into the game server..

          Those are my experiences on Sunden. I have had virtually no crashes in area transits (like 1 max 2)

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          • #6
            I have experienced this crash issue - and for me it was also happening in unpopulated areas - gate of the sunderer springs to mind, and when entering the smelly dwarfs shop.
            Sundren is sound. Cheers

            Zeb, Human follower of Gwaeron - tracking down his next pint

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            • #7
              What I was told by an Obsidian representative it might be related to latency from the server. Not how many people are in the zone you are loading into. If it is latency, spreading out would lower the latency on the server alot at huge population times.

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              • #8
                Yea, but you can't really force people into spreading, that would be a bit silly, a DM telling you where to RP and with who I think people will spread a little more once there's more dungeon areas around towns.
                Fret and fear, for Europe is near.

                Desmonia Flashir

                GBX: I'm a level 20 programmer for sure in real life. I know more about CPU's, software, Windows, etc, than most people know about their own children.

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                • #9
                  One thing I've noticed is that there are too many people who have outleveled the hills and are not hitting the forest or undead cave... If people would stop spending time in the hills after they hit level 6 or 7, it would help that area tremendously. I conned a few people last night on my level 3 warlock that actually conned dark orange and even one red... that is a bit extreme.

                  Maleficus "Ravenor" Carnificis
                  "Dreams... such fertile ground for the seeds of torment. I can sense your ripeness and, oddly enough, it is time for the harvest. Please, save your tears... I intend to reap your sorrow slowly and have ages to discover the things that make you suffer... I am eager to revel in the sweet melody of your screams and the melancholy of your despair..."
                  Eldraxus Tzyvioq
                  Mystic Theurge (and Harper) of Deneir wandering the Sundered Valley in search of (and with the intention of mapping out) places of power, ley-line intersections, and other locations where the divine and arcane intersect...

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                  • #10
                    The only problem for me in this case is, I'm one of the highest levels on the server (6) and the forest always, ALWAYS crashes my game, whenever I enter it. I still go there, but I just hate it crashing to and from there. Ruins any RP I had beforehand too..

                    My suggestion is, give the Forest more enemies (it needs a lot more, around the two areas it has) as well as better loot drops to make it more appealing to people. That way they will spread out when they gear ''I got so and so off this dogman, you know?''.

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                    • #11
                      I've yet to crash in Sundren, period. As for the areas, I do agree, there needs to be more roving bands of enemies instead of just having a cluster spawn in one area like the fort. They are still working on areas and still editing, so expect big things soon... If you are getting bored in one area, just roleplay, or maybe build a new character to mess around on... Or, what about the cave at Sestra? There are many opportunities you can take advantage of that don't require going to the hills. I avoid the place like the plague, even at level 3... I prefer the Forest. Noone goes there.

                      Maleficus "Ravenor" Carnificis
                      "Dreams... such fertile ground for the seeds of torment. I can sense your ripeness and, oddly enough, it is time for the harvest. Please, save your tears... I intend to reap your sorrow slowly and have ages to discover the things that make you suffer... I am eager to revel in the sweet melody of your screams and the melancholy of your despair..."
                      Eldraxus Tzyvioq
                      Mystic Theurge (and Harper) of Deneir wandering the Sundered Valley in search of (and with the intention of mapping out) places of power, ley-line intersections, and other locations where the divine and arcane intersect...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I only crash when going to Port Avanthyr, the first time I join the server I almost always get the Windows send report error. But sometimes when loading Avanthyr the load just stops and I have to ctrl alt del my way out of the game. Its really anoying especially when RPing.
                        Jonathan Portnoy - A pirate's life fer me ARRR
                        Caleb Norte - The Green Half-Orc
                        Ego Trip - Wizard Spectacularrr

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