New Neverwinter Nights Title?

[GodBeastX]

It's using their MMO engine they use in Champions Online and Star Trek Online. It's meant to be an MMO-style play unlike the PW-style we're used to currently.

Personally I'm not impressed with any of the MMOs line-ups coming out. Including The Old Republic.

[Artemis]

I just went to that site and read the first page containing a list of a few very basic things you can't do in the Foundry. Things that wouldn't even have logical limitations due to potential abuse. Things you CAN do in the Warcraft 3 editor, which came out almost 10 years ago, and that's not even an RPG. When an editor of an old strategy game gives you more features to develop an RPG than a brand new RPG does, that does not give off a good signal to me.

Let's face it, the NWN franchise was built around the editor. For this new Neverwinter game it seems more like a thing on the side to increase the longevity of the game by letting people change content here and there. That's nice for an MMO - and definitely a step ahead of the 'dynamic events' in Rift, for instance - but with the way they are advertising the modding capabilities themselves I think it's reasonable to assume they will be very limited compared to the Aurora toolset. Generally speaking, an 'accessible' toolset means you have a few building blocks out of which you can put your world (or dungeon in this case) together in a few days, and that's it. If you need months to create anything good (with complex tools and a lot of freedom), your average Joe won't have the patience for it. And the media outlets really aren't going to criticise Cryptic if the editor is made for the average Joe.

Also still no mention of persistent worlds or actual self-created areas. If you expect too much of it, you'll probably feel let down in the end. I really doubt many modders will transition over from NWN2 to the new NW. They're not the audience for this type of game.

Exactly.

[Kaeldorn]

I just went to that site and read the first page containing a list of a few very basic things you can't do in the Foundry. Things that wouldn't even have logical limitations due to potential abuse. Things you CAN do in the Warcraft 3 editor, which came out almost 10 years ago, and that's not even an RPG. When an editor of an old strategy game gives you more features to develop an RPG than a brand new RPG does, that does not give off a good signal to me.

Let's face it, the NWN franchise was built around the editor. For this new Neverwinter game it seems more like a thing on the side to increase the longevity of the game by letting people change content here and there. That's nice for an MMO - and definitely a step ahead of the 'dynamic events' in Rift, for instance - but with the way they are advertising the modding capabilities themselves I think it's reasonable to assume they will be very limited compared to the Aurora toolset. Generally speaking, an 'accessible' toolset means you have a few building blocks out of which you can put your world (or dungeon in this case) together in a few days, and that's it. If you need months to create anything good (with complex tools and a lot of freedom), your average Joe won't have the patience for it. And the media outlets really aren't going to criticise Cryptic if the editor is made for the average Joe.

Also still no mention of persistent worlds or actual self-created areas. If you expect too much of it, you'll probably feel let down in the end. I really doubt many modders will transition over from NWN2 to the new NW. They're not the audience for this type of game.

[Zoberraz]

Instead of talking negatively about something you don't know, Kaeldorn, why not research on the subject first?

I suggest you go and take a look at a community-made website builder enthusiasts in Star Trek Online have made to collect news, information and video tutorials, StarbaseUGC.

Another points about the Foundry is that it's supported. The toolset is an evolving thing which has seen improvements and additions ever since it first came out for Star Trek Online back in last... November 2010 I think. Features that were not there at first have been introduced in since, and the library of critters, placeables and tilesets has been expanded upon based on additional content added into the game itself by the Devs - and from personal experience I'd say Cryptic's environment team isn't too shabby.

And... supposedly... Neverwinter's codebase for the Foundry is more powerful than the one we have access to on STO (apparently, STO Devs are the one taking and integrating code from Neverwinter to upgrade rather than vice-versa). Besides, with Game Trailer TV, The Escapist, Neowin, GameSpot, TenTonHammer and Zam so far saying the equivalent of "Hey, this is nice" I'd think there's - maybe? - something to it? It's not like these guys have forgotten what the Aurora toolset was, and I'm fairly sure that they'll be quick to put down the game if there's a reason to put it down: STO's premature launch earned it plenty of vitriol.

It's not like Cryptic or Atari can presently afford bribing all of those to heap praise of what they came up with for E3... which was their trailers, and the Foundry toolset (so, the bulk of the comment isn't base on any content Cryptic made, but solely on their toolset). I mean, right now 'Neverwinter' is being judged almost solely on the merit of its toolset.

[Kaeldorn]

Yeah, called it.. They're still not promising anything more than creating mini quests in an already existing area, to which you can apply a template for pre-generated looks and possibly dump a couple of flavour objects in for decoration. That's so minimal, I doubt the editor's full features list will be anything spectacular.

[Artemis]

Ok, yeah, it looks pretty but I don't know. Seems very graphically dependent so people better have a very nice robust machine to run it. I fear that the customization and world building will be simplified. That includes the classes too. I sense they will probably put more time into how it looks rather than the gameplay itself. I've seen a lot of MMOs in my experience, and they tend to go this direction. It's one big hype and when it releases people start to realize how much it sucks, i.e. Star Trek Online. Biggest bust ever. The graphics are amazing but the gaming is limited and have too many holes for improvement.

[Saulus]

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3...rwinter/715882

Oh yeah that's great customization... bleh. I can make a mission in their pre-defined world.

[Zoberraz]

Then your standards are higher than mine.

To me D&D is about me roleplaying with a group of friends about having medieval fantasy adventures in daunting locales, crossing blades with creatures large and small - for the sake of knowledge, the glory of having defeated powerful foes, experiencing a nice story and the lure of treasure.

Since the game offers the ability to create guilds, nothing stops a player from joining a group of talented roleplayers to form something similar to the collective playerbase of a persistent world. That guild can choose to base itself around any of the possible hubs in the gaming world and call it 'home'. Officers of that guild wishing to produce content could go and create themselves modules that they could then offer to other members of their guild for entertainment (and Neverwinter should feature the ability to DM over such, according to the interviews).

To me, that covers most of what a person could get out of a persistent world. The Foundry - from what I've seen of its use in Star Trek Online - would certainly allow to have your "Second Wind Inn" to be purely a socializing module one day (you select the module and go to it just like you area travel in Sundren), and the next be swarmed over by lizardmen depending on module alterations, iterations or DM functions.

"Actions that have impact" have impact because other people acknowledge it. Within a small community with arbitrated adventures, that's seems just as possible to me in Neverwinter - the Sundren persistent world in NWN2, or the "Sundren" guild in Neverwinter... there can be very little difference. All it takes, like here on Sundren, are enterprising people willing to animate, referee and communicate these things. Each NWN2 persistent world, after all, is a kind of clique pretty similar to a guild.

Yeah, that would take effort... but it also took a lot of effort to get Sundren started from scratch too, and it took time for it to evolve into what it is today (I can still remember when Port Avanthyr was the main hub, with the Sharahan hills/Gate of the Sunderer being the lowbie areas, the Mossclaw Meet/Aquor caves being the 'high level areas', that earned XP from monsters had us top off somewhere around level 8, and that the next big thing as far as dungeons went was the necropolis).

So, yeah, conservativeness. I can understand that. But your roleplay won't suck because it's a different game. Heck, anyone properly motivated enough could roleplay in the first Diablo game and have fun doing so.

[Kaybrie]

For most of us, DnD is about a persistent world (whether online or PnP) in which our actions have impact. Doesn't seem like Neverwinter's going to deliver that.

This.

I'm still waiting on an RPG maker formatted game, where the entire program is just a way for regular joes to make online persistent worlds, like mini mmo's to their hearts content. When that day comes I'm sure the communities of NWN2 and NWN1 will reunite and journey forth onto a new horizon.

Until then though, not holding my breath on Neverwinter.

[roguethree]

For most of us, DnD is about a persistent world (whether online or PnP) in which our actions have impact. Doesn't seem like Neverwinter's going to deliver that.

[Zoberraz]

Shedboy, I think there's a sizeable difference between "looks like shit" and "not to my tastes", the latter being prevalent in the comments I've seen thus far - along with a healthy bit of understandable conservatism.

It's somewhat too early for gloom and doom posts about the game, seeing that it remains a work-in-progress. Maybe the game may disappoint certain expectations for some people, but it's hard to please everyone while trying to innovate (and different people have different perspectives on how to innovate). Regardless, I'm fairly sure that the game's developers didn't wake up one morning telling themselves "hey guys, let's make a really bad game to follow up the Neverwinter D&D franchise".

Then again, I also work in the gaming industry, so I might have a more personal take on it.

I've been corresponding with one of their lore writers, Alivet on the official forums, for quite some time and she's always struck me as someone whom was putting painstaking attention to details, someone whom was passionate, and dedicated. I think that kind of hard work and spirit deserves benefit of the doubt and as much respect as a Sundren player could extend to the hardworking people here at Sundren that made it a quality place to roleplay as well.

Me, I'm grateful that there's going to be a possibly nice D&D game based on Neverwinter Nights in late 2011. It's better than having none at all. Maybe it will be good. Maybe it won't - and then people can just vote with their feet/wallets then.

[Shedboy]

meh. from what you guys have said it sounds shit. WOC have muntbar'd the realms, making it even more of a mosaic than a vommited supreme pizza after a night of mixed drink and last years undigested carrots. sif it wasn't already an earth beaten with an egg whisk!

I was hoping they'd release a game based on pathfinder.

very disappointing

[Chipmunk]

I'd expect much better visuals from a contemporary game engine, the screenshots shown look about average for a game released 2-3 years ago.

I can live with that if they manage a good camera.

It's surprising to see how few games these days feature a pleasant-to-use camera system that you simply don't notice.

[Doubtful]

I'd expect much better visuals from a contemporary game engine, the screenshots shown look about average for a game released 2-3 years ago.

[Artemis]

I am don't think I am too quick to transition over this new game. I mean think about it. We are used to a franchise that has almost a decade of conditioning. If all else, yeah maybe the game will be new and nice to play but in comparison I can not see this game ever beating or changing NWN forever. There was too much work and dedication in the game and expansions and quite frankly, I can not think of any other game that could make it better in a DnD setting.