Enhanced Power attack for Frenzied Berserker Question.

[Azulfae]

Another player has asked my advice on making a Frenzied Berserker.

You wouldn't catch me playing one personally, I like defense more than attack personally.

I was looking into some options when building such a character and was considering Monkey grip and using a shield whilst holding a two handed weapon. (There goes me being defense orientated)

Then I saw, Enhanced power attack and saw that when holding a two handed weapon the damage bonus when using power attack goes up rather impressively. (doubles!)

But! Does this still apply, using a two handed weapon, one handedly with a shield (monkeygrip) or second weapon (monkeygrip+Dual wield)

No 'judgemental self riteous types' commenting on power building please, it's not for me, i'm just interested if the rules of the feat are about having a weapon in two hands or simply about the weapon being a two handed weapon.

[Product of Void]

pretty sure you loose the advantage of two handed damage when using it one handed such as monkey grip.

Though having two weapon defense allows for ac bonus when using two handed weapon.

And expertise is a great way to go for some added ac.

If it was me I would go with a dwarf for race to get the damage reduction. Probably fighter/frenzie so can get enough feats. or bard/frenzie would be cool.

any idea of what the person you are asking for wants for race/classes? I could see about writing up a build for it I like doing that.

[Zoberraz]

Yeah Azulfae, you have to take a weapon with both hands to get the most out of your power attack. That said, going monkey grip large weapon/shield would be a bit counter productive for a FB build.

[Azulfae]

Yeah I have a mindset about AC and defense before attack.

If you look at the idea of having expertise for a FB it's like your negating what the class is about. FB is all about letting it all go and throwing yourself at death to create a situation the enemy can't survive, suicidal rage. Screw AC, Screw tactics it all about Damage.

I'm probably the last person who should be giving advice on character building for a character like this. It's so far from my style.

Dwarven defender is more my sort of thing.

Oh and lol I had been messing around with a shield dwarf fighter/FB build.

[Kaeldorn]

If you look at the idea of having expertise for a FB it's like your negating what the class is about. FB is all about letting it all go and throwing yourself at death to create a situation the enemy can't survive, suicidal rage. Screw AC, Screw tactics it all about Damage.

You just stated there why an FB shouldn't use shields

[Anks]

Well to answer your first initial question, you do not get frenzied beserker to power attack while you money grip, I know... because I have tried to dual wield greatswords , spears and great axes as a FB... =)

That being said a it's a shame a frenzied beserker, dwarven defender. Is impossible to obtain. Would be a fun combination.

[Product of Void]

why would you want to go dwarven defender? just need 3 feats toughness, stone bones, iron bones. walla dmg reduction 4/-

[Azulfae]

Lol yeah, Imagine frenzied rage and defensive stance in combo but of course, just hearing those two phrases in the same sentance makes you realise why you can't do it.

Loosing control to the point you damage yourself because you are hurling your weapon at your enemies to hard in combination with holding the spot in a diciplined manner fortifying your position and refusing to budge.

It doesn't compute.

Expertise or any kind of intelligent fighting meneuvre for this class doesn't work. Even the idea of tactically defending blows with your shield as you go crazy doesn't work either.

I think frenzied berserker really requires intelligence as the dump stat then throw it all into constitution.

Has to be Rped as having some kind of brain injury or mental retardation too.

[Kaeldorn]

Actually.. recklessness doesn't equal stupidity. I find an intelligent FB more logical than a wise one. Hot headed intellectuals are more likely than considerate ragers.

Now, expertise probably doesn't fit. But knockdown and disarm? Hell yes

[Zoberraz]

I recall my Elf Druid 17 I played on The Frontier ending up making a duo with another high-level Rashemi Frenzied Berserker. We were going up a mountain that was rife with groups of Red Drakes... basically, smaller 15 HD red dragons.

Alone, my druid could perhaps confront one group to those, win and then need to beat it because of her protection spells being overwhelmed/depleted by then. However, with the FB, we were able to go through the whole place. I was very impressed.

There is something to say about a good defense being a great offense and it applied. Not to mention that well applied force at the right moments could also be pivotal. Frenzied Berserkers can be dumb and stupid... but nothing stops them from being smart, cunning warriors either - combatants whom know how to best exploit their fighting prowess and how to mesh it in with the efforts of other people in their group.

Not to mention that you don't necessarily have to rage either. Even while not raging, the other Berserker-class features can look pretty darn useful. It might actually be smarter to rage when you weaken, if only in consideration of Deathless Rage too.

[Anks]

Well... Kaeldorn is correct, a beserker isn't necessarily stupid. Take a real world example, Viking beserkers which did exist. There's a reason why their fierce and somewhat reckless combat was renown, there are written account on their martial art, in a less traditional sense of the word. Either way, Beserker's , and rager's are not stupid. They are just reckless and written account's mention of a meditative trance warriors would succum to before battle. Kinda like modern day boxers or MMA fighter's they build themselfs up mentally to prepare themself's.

[Product of Void]

here is an idea for a build could rp being a dwarven war chanter. Perhaps a battle rager

Frenzied Berserker(10), Fighter(3), Bard(7)

Race: Shield Dwarf



Alignment: Not lawful
Deity: -

STR: 15(20)
DEX: 14
CON: 16
WIS: 10
INT: 12
CHA: 12

{Darkvision, Stonecunning, Hardiness vs. Poisons, Hardiness vs. Spells, Battle Training vs. Orcs, Battle Training vs. Goblins, Battle Training vs. Giants, Skill Affinity (Lore)}

Bonusfeats: $: Fighter

Lvl 01: Bard(1): Background: Bully0, Toughness, {Bardic Knowledge, Inspiration, Inspire Courage, Countersong, Fascinate, Armored Caster (Bard)}
Lvl 02: Fighter(1): Power Attack $, {Tower Shield Proficiency}
Lvl 03: Fighter(2): Stone Bones $
Lvl 04: Bard(2): STR+1, {Inspire Competence}, (STR=16)
Lvl 05: Bard(3): {Haven Song}
Lvl 06: Fighter(3): Great Cleave
Lvl 07: Bard(4)
Lvl 08: Frenzied Berserker(1): STR+1, {Frenzy 1}, (STR=17)
Lvl 09: Frenzied Berserker(2): Extra Rage, {Supreme Cleave}
Lvl 10: Frenzied Berserker(3): {Frenzy 2}
Lvl 11: Frenzied Berserker(4): {Deathless Frenzy}
Lvl 12: Frenzied Berserker(5): STR+1, Extend Rage, {Frenzy 3, Enhanced Power Attack}, (STR=18)
Lvl 13: Frenzied Berserker(6): {Inspire Frenzy 1}
Lvl 14: Frenzied Berserker(7): {Frenzy 4}
Lvl 15: Frenzied Berserker(8): Iron Bones, {Inspire Frenzy 2, Greater Frenzy}
Lvl 16: Frenzied Berserker(9): STR+1, {Frenzy 5}, (STR=19)
Lvl 17: Frenzied Berserker(10): {Inspire Frenzy 3, Supreme Power Attack}
Lvl 18: Bard(5): Curse Song, {Inspire Defense}
Lvl 19: Bard(6): {Cloud Mind}
Lvl 20: Bard(7): STR+1, {Inspire Regeneration}, (STR=20)

Hitpoints: 272
BAB: 18
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Reflex/Will): 16/11/9

Skillpoints: 109
Max. Melee AB: 23, Max. Ranged AB: 20

Spell Casting: Bard(2)
Detailed Spell Casting (Level 0-9): Bard: 5/3 • 4/4 • 4/3


Knockdown would be a great idea for any fighter. could see instead of extra rage put knockdown.

Though there is a question I thought of after setting this charactor up. With the damage reduction of 4 does that make it so the charactor only takes 2 points of damage per round? Also when you reach level 7 bard and inspire regeneration would that decrease it further to 1 point a round damage.

I probalby also fubared it a little by not putting all the stat increases to con which means switch the start stats.

[Anks]

Hey man... do you mind if I steal the concept... because I actually like the sound of that.. a Bard / Fighter / FB or Bard / Barbarian / FB well from a RP stand point. Kinda like some Blonde haired tribal individual, who inspires others and himself to go into an rage. By calling forth animal spirits while he beats on a war drom.

[Product of Void]

steal away I have yet to post the builds I use :P

[Thief Of Navarre]

why would you want to go dwarven defender? just need 3 feats toughness, stone bones, iron bones. walla dmg reduction 4/-

Because 10/- DR with 4 strength and constitution higher than normal is better than 4/- DR alone

The defensive stance is effectively a rage for most extents; then add in immunity to flanking and your effectively 9/10's of a barbarian (albeit a lawful one) and a hell of a lot better as a party character!