DM Feedback

[Phantom Lamb]

Hey everyone,

The DM team would like to hear some feedback. We have a lot of team members now, and we're trying to figure out where to best allocate our time.

So--what would you like to see more of?



We want to make this open ended, so all kinds of constructive DM team feedback will be great. This is not an area to post complaints on rules. Unconstructive posts will be removed.

[Zoberraz]

From what I've seen so far, there are DMs frequently around for the latter half of the day to liven things up. So far, I've enjoyed most of the DM involvement I've seen.

One thing I personally have difficulty with is how to take proactive action concerning non-player characters. There's no forum to really plan these things out and it's said that Staff can't really cater to specific player character needs... so, I'm a bit at a loss on how to approach DMs to organize actions.

It could be as simple as having a chat with an influencial NPC over dinner. Or trying to organize when we could stage the next search for a reagent to make the cure to the Velsharoon curse.

[Kaeldorn]

It's easy to throw monsters at the players to go with an event, but in the long run it's the story-based plots and events that are remembered. I realize that it's a lot of work to pre-plan events, and while I don't know for certain I think that in many cases DM's make up everything on the spot, or in case of larger plots there is a basic direction they set and they make up the details as they go.

Now, there's nothing essentially wrong with that, but what makes RP'ing fun in the long run are the (moral) dilemma's and choices that eventually decide the course of your character. And to be honest, I've had surprisingly little challenge in this area over the past year. Only a few times have I seen something the like and it was mostly with players and not in plots that were created by DM's. In 'unmoving' times, this has resulted a few times in taking my char to extremes just to get some thrill of risks that I'd otherwise miss. Which in turn gave you DM's a hard time because of need to intervene due to things not fitting within your views of what's acceptable.

Now to get to the point (because I could go on forever here if I didn't ), I think it would be fun to, once in a while, plan events that aren't based on combat (though it can be used) with a few possible paths and consequences in the back of your head already. Nudge those choices at players a bit more directly (not only revealing one and keeping the others secret, because then it's likely that the feeling of choice never even comes to surface. Also more than just 'do or don't', but rather 'do this or do that'), and use that to cause moral friction in individuals and groups. Set people up against eachother. Not only Banites vs. good guys, but test people's loyalties and maybe even pose dilemmas that may break IC friendships and alliances. People shouldn't need to be a jerk to make enemies, they should be forced (yes, I dare to use that word) by the story to make them naturally. Because of choices, and not only because of background or what deity they picked. This may require taking into consideration various characters' personalities and searching for ways to incite conflict or change, but the work is worth it I think.

EDIT: This isn't to say I dislike the way of DM'ing thus far. I've actually had a lot of enjoyment from it, so take no offense. I'd personally just like it if sometimes the free-form RP was partially let go to gain more in-your-face choices to make.

[Phantom Lamb]

Oh, let me mention also--please make a nice summary in bold of your thoughts. I'm trying to read the feedback, but it takes a long time. Succinct infoz helps!

Zob-- That's a very valid concern. We're hoping to get a DM Help Forum, so people can post their requests here and the DM can address them in an organized fashion. We can cater to specific needs, assuming the DM has time to do so.

Kael-- Non-combat events where player choices influence the outcome; find conflict in more than black / white, good / evil... did I get everything?

[Kaeldorn]

Almost

Add to that the choices posed can be more in your face choices once in a while, where people have to weigh up what they find the lesser evil. Where you as DM already have a basic idea of where door 1 leads and where door 2 leads, because that way it's easier to make the choices seem more significant (since you're prepared like you would be with a linear story). That's not to say that all the consequences for the player need to be crystal clear.. that's something their own judgement will have to deal with.

[Anks]

I agree with Kaeldorn,

But I have a bit more to add, on the subject of non-combat event's. Personally I love them but...theres a problem with the vast majority of said events. They drag on for hours. Personally I do not have the patience nor the time to sit around for three hours straight.

And now for my own feedback, I love it when people such as rogues / wizards get things done their way by thinking outside the box with their spells and abilities, doing something extraordinary. And the dm's reward them by. Bypassing combat, pointless chit/chat, Sneaking around.

Well you get the point.

[Saulus]

I agree with Kaeldorn,

But I have a bit more to add, on the subject of non-combat event's. Personally I love them but...theres a problem with the vast majority of said events. They drag on for hours. Personally I do not have the patience nor the time to sit around for three hours straight.

Neither do I, but the majority of the time I'm sitting nearly falling asleep waiting for the players to go where I want them... they like to chat about it for a long time though.

[Phantom Lamb]

Neither do I, but the majority of the time I'm sitting nearly falling asleep waiting for the players to go where I want them... they like to chat about it for a long time though.

Yeah, that's always a major frustration for DM's. We want folks to make IC decisions, but doing so in a timely manner is important for us.

[Zemlock]

Yeah, that's always a major frustration for DM's. We want folks to make IC decisions, but doing so in a timely manner is important for us.

It may be nice to have a sticky thread that will benefit both the players and DM's with general guidelines and rules of thumb on how to have a more efficient, less boring DM event that will allow an event to move along its plot and have an ending. I know i would learn something.

[black hand]

Like Anks, I have to say that time is also a factor. In RL, a good D&D sitting takes a minimum of 4 hours, and averages around 6-8... and 12 for those fun stretched out ones. I am inclinded to believe that many of the players can't afford such times for a good campaign and resort to NWN for a quicker fix and probably would average 1d2+1 hours of game time a day... (((Or every other day))) ...in Sundren. I have had to avoid many events mainly because I knew I only had an hour or so online and although would want to take part, he last thing I would want to do is bail on the DM and players in the middle of things, which could make things difficult for everyone involved.

On that note though, I applaud the DM's I have played with for their spontaneity, which is just as important in being a DM as is detailed planning. Whether it is quick RP situation or combat, a spontanious encounter is always welcome; A guard saying something out of the ordinary to you, a ragamuffin coming by and picking your pocket, a drunk tumbleing out of a tavern and starting a fight, or whatever encounter a DM can come up with on a whim, the ones lilke that I have taken part in were always fun and even if there is no xp reward, it makes me come back for more because you never know what you're going to get... even if your initial plan was to go knock a few heads together in the Shannaran hills, and you end up getting into a theological arguement with a commoner... In essence, any interaction by the DM's no matter how small is welcome by all players, especially the ones who can't be on for long.





For those wanting to read on, a good example of spontaneity was when my Gnome, under the influence of various substances had stumbled into the Spittlefist chiefs cave in a vain attempt to lay him low. For some reason the chief didn't spawn, so I had asked a DM if he can be spawned. What I thought would be just a little technical assistance, turned out to be a 1/2 hour little side-adventure of being beat up, and busting out of the chiefs prison while rescuing a goblin 'princess' of the muckspear tribe... No, the Gnome will not speak of it again. It was back in December and I forget the DM's name, but that is a good example of the interaction I was referring to.

[TamurtheLame]

Bottom line up front - I would love DMs announce when there is an impending RP or one going on that may be of interest.

My only complaint would be that I usually have no idea that an event is taking place. Sometimes I see three DMs on at one time, but I have no clue there is an event taking place. I just think that maybe they are helping people with their personal RP and maybe are busy.

I am not very demanding of DM time and just roll with what is going on and I hate to do a search to see if there is a large group somewhere and then just saunter over to see what is going on. It would be great to maybe have events broadcast or maybe a tell to say something is about to happen or is going on if you are interested.

I would love to be involved in more DM events; however, to date, I have only been in two tangentally.

[Phantom Lamb]

Tamur-- This one probably won't happen too often. I do my best to minimize shouting as a lead-in for events. Yes, it is effective to get a big group together, but that usually becomes unmanagable very quickly. 15 people in an event usually means players get drowned out. Also, characters that wouldn't have business being there tend to find themselves in the event. And lastly, the shout channel just... *cringes as he says it* ...breaks immersion.

Anyway, yes we do this sometimes, but only for plot events.

What other thoughts do we have for bringing characters together from multiple zones?

[Kaeldorn]

If you have multiple DM's on, it might be cool to approach two different groups/individuals at the same time and drop IC hints for different (perhaps mutually exclusive) objectives in the same event. That's one way of achieving one of my aforementioned suggestions as well. People go to the zone having borrowed themselves to do such and such, then they meet up with the others and if they join together they're going to have to figure out which goal they want to accomplish or otherwise stall/break the other group's efforts

[Zoberraz]

I think the best alternative for that is simply to have players ask in the DM channel if there is anything interesting going on - face it, everyone can get bored sometimes and wish they might be part of something that's going on.

Perhaps it's metagamish and immersion breaking to allow so (just like some argue the player finding tool is), but the entertainment stemming from it afterward might very well be worth that sacrifice.

[joker]

I like Kaeldorn's suggestions but would add, if there is more than one DM on having a good aligned group working against an evil aligned group to gain an item or complete a quest. This would help develop the factions and give more people a chance to get involved.

Example: Having the Banites or some other faction searching for something and then have the Legion or Triumverate trying to find the same item to prevent it from falling into the wrong hands. Of course this only works if multiple DMs are on and there are enough players from each faction to get involved.