A DM Habbit - We can't help it

[GodBeastX]

Next Orc I control is going to be named "The Big Waaaaagh"

[Maxx Powers]

Would you role play it was a druid if you saw someone labeled "Mean Evil Assassin of People who Call him a Druid" dressed like some druids do?

There is probably something like a druid stereotype in looks/smeel/acts, but it doesn't means everyone who acts like that is a druid or that all druids would be easily recognized like that

I would probably rely more on the "examine" feature for interpretations. If that shows he's a druid then my character will act as such, unless the npc dispels that.

[GodBeastX]

I would probably rely more on the "examine" feature for interpretations. If that shows he's a druid then my character will act as such, unless the npc dispels that.

Definitely don't rely on Examine right now <_< >_>

I turn wierd NPC's into PC's. I can't set descriptions yet, so you might see something like "Killer Woman" with "Retta Starling is a sweet old woman from the sword Coast" and yadda. Just ask the DM, what's so bad about that?

"Do I notice something odd?"

You'll either get "No"

or "Roll Spot"

or something.

[Ichbin]

Ya know, I was really tempted to make a char called "Mariner" and just hang out at the port saying "Oi, how are ya!?" to everyone that walked to the tavern.

[pook]

I guess you missed my point about the names, but I don't want to get into an argument about the chooser, since I haven't used it much.

I'm really just trying to understand your views on good RP, because your posts tend to confuse me. At least to the point that it seems you have very particular views on what is good or is not good way to play and it can come off as very black and white (like you should have played it my way or you're wrong).
I doubt you really think that. It is most likely a result of communicating over a forum, which can lose a lot of meaning in sentences or cause people to simplify because they don't want to type 20 pages.

This isn't a rant or dumping on you. It's honestly an attempt to understand expectations better, as well as, maybe show you a view that you had not thought about or considered.

I guess the names thing has always bugged me because of a post you made once. You said something like "if a name is over the head = players will just assume they know it". Yes I probably did not quote it right and I'm sure it was not targeted directly at me, but I've felt like I've tried hard to play this point correct, even before you ever posted about it, and it felt like I just got lumped into the "bad player" category when I feel like I played things well.
My char was not on the particular quest, but had he been, he would have said they were banites right off the bat. This is because he had been on a previous quest, run by you, where it was made clear to him they are. He is somewhat prejudice, so in his mind, every human who looks anything like them (which NPCs look alilke seems to be a whole new issue ) who he meets in the cave is a banite to him unless proven otherwise.

My basic points about removing those types of names (with a class or belief in them) are this:
1) I think its more fun, but that's the least important reason.
2) I dont think you are going to get what you want from this, no matter how much you post on it. There will always be players who either , metagame and say the descriptions when they should not, or actually know it IC, but you don't know they do and then give you the impression that they are metagaming it.
3) Just take away the names because it fixes the problems in #2 without you having to post 100 times and try to convince everyone. If they still say this or that about an NPC, you know they had to have heard it somewhere and not read it over the head.

I'd suggest thinking over giving proper names to all NPC's who are special to you for finding in the chooser. If you could remember Bob Smith is my necro guy, then I think it would play well. This is because all players are very used to dealing with proper names from other PC's. Almost everyone plays well with not knowing a PC's name until they've been introduced.

This is just suggestions from my end. I don't know that it would work exactly like that or well at all, but I thought it could help you eliminate alot of "names" issues.

[Ethereal Edge]

A paladin of any religion going around detecing evil constantly would be like you buying a device to detect radioactivity and constantly scanning everyone you meet with it. Do that in real life and I'll let you have constant detect evil.

[Ithildur]

Sometimes it isn't always clear, that is true.. The Banites in the caves, we all know there are Banites in the caves; do they all wear/dress similiarly? I'd guess that since they're clerics, they do have holy symbols, and they've no reason to hide them when they're hanging out in their lair... however the ones outside the cave, maybe a different matter.

The tough thing is some DMs will assume you know it's a banite and recognize them immediately, so while you're standing there typing out "Halt! Who are you and what brings you into this cave.." they might start pounding you... whereas other DMs, if you *do* assume they're Banites and attack right away, might respond to that as metagaming i.e. "why did you attack him? You just killed someone that was plot critical that was meant to dialog with for vital clues for no reason; you don't know that he's a Banite or anything about him for that matter"

That's why I find it really helpful, indeed vital, when DMs give out even basic decriptions when facing an NPC, monster, new area, etc; nothing is assumed by either side, and a simple "you see a man dressed in xyz but otherwise he seems unremarkable" or such can make a huge difference. Plus it really adds depth to the RP.

[Ichbin]

Sometimes it isn't always clear, that is true.. The Banites in the caves, we all know there are Banites in the caves; do they all wear/dress similiarly? I'd guess that since they're clerics, they do have holy symbols, and they've no reason to hide them when they're hanging out in their lair... however the ones outside the cave, maybe a different matter.

The tough thing is some DMs will assume you know it's a banite and recognize them immediately, so while you're standing there typing out "Halt! Who are you and what brings you into this cave.." they might start pounding you... whereas other DMs, if you *do* assume they're Banites and attack right away, might respond to that as metagaming i.e. "why did you attack him? You just killed someone that was plot critical that was meant to dialog with for vital clues for no reason; you don't know that he's a Banite or anything about him for that matter"

That's why I find it really helpful, indeed vital, when DMs give out even basic decriptions when facing an NPC, monster, new area, etc; nothing is assumed by either side, and a simple "you see a man dressed in xyz but otherwise he seems unremarkable" or such can make a huge difference. Plus it really adds depth to the RP.

I agree, thats why ppl are so quick to hit. If you dont introduce your NPCs they're just gonna get thwacked, coz (like Ith said) no one wants to get attacked while typing and trying to rp.

[Ithildur]

I agree, thats why ppl are so quick to hit. If you dont introduce your NPCs they're just gonna get thwacked, coz (like Ith said) no one wants to get attacked while typing and trying to rp.

Well, on a RP server, you want to err on the side of being slow to attack if you must err.

DM event or not, a lot of people here seem definitely trigger happy which is an indication of what kind of style of play they're used to. This isn't a FPS server... I see a lot of people charging blindly alone into a pack of goblins at lvl 3 and get killed time and time again.

[GodBeastX]

The tough thing is some DMs will assume you know it's a banite and recognize them immediately, so while you're standing there typing out "Halt! Who are you and what brings you into this cave.." they might start pounding you...

I don't see what the problem is. Firstly, being a Banite in Sundren isn't illegal. People might look at you bad, but there aren't people in jail or executed simply for being a Banite.

Second, even so, why would you assume he's going to kill you before he attacks anyway? Type out Halt! If a DM has it attack anyway, then you go "Oh, you don't WANT to halt, alright!"

You want the DMs to type out everything for you in concise descriptions and such, but alls it takes is for a player to pause a split second to be certain of what they're doing and things work out fine. I'm sure that banite who pounded your face died, so was saying "Halt!" so bad?

[GodBeastX]

Also, sometimes when we're setting up NPCs we lose control of them because the AI responds too quickly before we can click things like faction changes and such.

One thing I'd like to see more is people actually communicating to DM's or the channel their planned actions. If you're in an event, telling me what you want to try or work out is MUUUUUCH easier for me. Alot of assumptions get made by players in events, which makes managing much more difficult.

Taking the time to go "/dm I'm going to check this body for something." Then I can go "Proceed". Instead people search a body, find Items the loot table put in there, not me, and assume it's a DM plot item making up allll kinds of stories, weee! Or even "I'm going to attack this NPC even though he's not hostile" then I can prepare for such too. It's not always about players being ready, we need to be ready too.

[Ichbin]

I usually just keep my DM channel quiet, coz Im assuming its flooded by everybody else...heh, maybe I should do that for now on.

[pook]

One thing I'd like to see more is people actually communicating to DM's or the channel their planned actions.

I'm glad you clarified this.

I never did this because I assumed this would be generally frowned upon and seen as spammy or 'tweak this quest just for me' or something. Now I know different.

[GodBeastX]

I guess the names thing has always bugged me because of a post you made once. You said something like "if a name is over the head = players will just assume they know it". Yes I probably did not quote it right and I'm sure it was not targeted directly at me, but I've felt like I've tried hard to play this point correct, even before you ever posted about it, and it felt like I just got lumped into the "bad player" category when I feel like I played things well.

Honestly, I don't think anyone is a bad player on Sundren right now or people wouldn't be on Sundren right now. People got rough edges. Some people hate to use shift keys and shorten words, that's a rough edge, others sometimes get ahead of themselves and assume a character is something it's not based on text over it's head.

I correct people. Yes. In game, on the forums, etc, there is correction occurring. Often times people apologize to me, which I often wonder "Why?" so I reply "No need to apologize, I'm just helping you out with more info" not attacking. For example, someone appeared in the temple of Helm after death and RP'd it like something teleported him there. I could simply correct him, then I'd have to correct each person I see doing it. Instead, I shouted across the server "There is no need to RP that you are teleported to the Temple of Helm by an awesome being and spontaneously appeared." This was not an attack, just a correction.

While it seems the I may possibly be dumping on someone, I'm more trying to remind people. I don't always say words with honey because I type 80wpm or so and rarely reread what I write in favor of efficiency. And I generally post all encompassing posts about the few things I witness for the sake of efficiency. I can't even remember the character names I see doing these things half the time, because that's not what's important to me.

My char was not on the particular quest, but had he been, he would have said they were banites right off the bat. This is because he had been on a previous quest, run by you, where it was made clear to him they are. He is somewhat prejudice, so in his mind, every human who looks anything like them (which NPCs look alilke seems to be a whole new issue ) who he meets in the cave is a banite to him unless proven otherwise.

My basic points about removing those types of names (with a class or belief in them) are this:
1) I think its more fun, but that's the least important reason.
2) I dont think you are going to get what you want from this, no matter how much you post on it. There will always be players who either , metagame and say the descriptions when they should not, or actually know it IC, but you don't know they do and then give you the impression that they are metagaming it.
3) Just take away the names because it fixes the problems in #2 without you having to post 100 times and try to convince everyone. If they still say this or that about an NPC, you know they had to have heard it somewhere and not read it over the head.

I'd suggest thinking over giving proper names to all NPC's who are special to you for finding in the chooser. If you could remember Bob Smith is my necro guy, then I think it would play well. This is because all players are very used to dealing with proper names from other PC's. Almost everyone plays well with not knowing a PC's name until they've been introduced.

This is just suggestions from my end. I don't know that it would work exactly like that or well at all, but I thought it could help you eliminate alot of "names" issues.

I know why you want the name gone, but will names be gone all the time? No. I try to make them generic when I am able, and I already know I won't stop everyone. However, can you concede that even after reading this you will consider what the character is based on what you see instead of what's over their head?

Also what's all this talk about Banites anyway?

[Zoberraz]

Everytime I try talking on the DM channel, I never get a reply... so, I sort of partly gave up on it.

(Yes, DMs were online - I concluded they were busy - so, if I wanted to get into DM events, they had to happen to me instead of me asking for a character to be possessed, etc etc).