Powerbuilding Rule? There isn't one.

[GodBeastX]

Some newer players might be concerned about this topic since I say "Powergaming" and "Grinding" alot in other threads.

Powerbuilding is generally frowned upon by RP communities. The staff generally (Some may not) are Neutral to it as long as what is selected is RP'd out. The only power building we will not allow is Alignment shifting to fit two cross alignment classes. While rules of Pen & Paper might allow such, we will likely replace the class with something similar and mundane.

For example, a Paladin who behave Evil will wake up a Fighter. An assassin who has a change of heart will wake up a rogue. A barbarian that becomes a lawyer will likely lose those levels. A monk who goes crazy might become a commoner <_< >_>

Stats must be roleplayed too, a low charisma person I expect to have social stigmas that are apparent. Low wisdom people I expect not to bring the meaning of life to the masses. So if your character is:

Str: 18
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 8
Cha: 8

He/She is going to be pretty much social inept, and likely borderline insane (Not murderous insane, but completely wierd).

So, overall, RP what you pick, nothing can conflict, and your builds are fine.

[Ithildur]

Some newer players might be concerned about this topic since I say "Powergaming" and "Grinding" alot in other threads.

Powerbuilding is generally frowned upon by RP communities. The staff generally (Some may not) are Neutral to it as long as what is selected is RP'd out. The only power building we will not allow is Alignment shifting to fit two cross alignment classes. While rules of Pen & Paper might allow such, we will likely replace the class with something similar and mundane.

For example, a Paladin who behave Evil will wake up a Fighter. An assassin who has a change of heart will wake up a rogue. A barbarian that becomes a lawyer will likely lose those levels. A monk who goes crazy might become a commoner <_< >_>

Stats must be roleplayed too, a low charisma person I expect to have social stigmas that are apparent. Low wisdom people I expect not to bring the meaning of life to the masses. So if your character is:

Str: 18
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 8
Cha: 8

He/She is going to be pretty much social inept, and likely borderline insane (Not murderous insane, but completely wierd).

So, overall, RP what you pick, nothing can conflict, and your builds are fine.

yeah.. INT,WIS/CHA below 8 are truly exceptional people, in a negative sense. I'd think they'd be treated with stigma/contempt (CHA), and likely die a premature death (WIS or INT) unless they were under someone's care due to being so inept and helpless, or Tymora smiled on them.

[Grigori]

I disagree. Fubar has a 6 intelligence and an 8 wisdom and, although he has died on many occasions due to bad decisions, he is making his way in the world just fine... so far...

[Ithildur]

I disagree. Fubar has a 6 intelligence and an 8 wisdom and, although he has died on many occasions due to bad decisions, he is making his way in the world just fine... so far...

Right...

arguably rather incongruent with his stats, unless again, he's been very very fortunate.

Forest Gump comes to mind.

Doesn't saying "he's died many times due to bad decisions" along with "he is making his way in the world just fine" feel odd to you at all? This is what I refer to as the South Park approach to RPing... also known as the Kenny Effect. "Stay tuned for a sneak peak into next week's episode, when Fubar dies yet again, this time from xyz..." :/

[GodBeastX]

Right...

arguably rather incongruent with his stats, unless again, he's been very very fortunate.

Forest Gump comes to mind.

Doesn't saying "he's died many times due to bad decisions" along with "he is making his way in the world just fine" feel odd to you at all? This is what I refer to as the South Park approach to RPing... also known as the Kenny Effect. "Stay tuned for a sneak peak into next week's episode, when Fubar dies yet again, this time from xyz..." :/

Forest Gump was 8 Int, 6 is like... a 4 year old... maybe worse.

[Grigori]

You are looking at a 6 intelligence as if it is a 2 or a 4...
The lowest stat you can start out with, that I can think of off the top of my head is 4, and that's with the racial -4 stat hit. Why would the game even let you have a character with that stat if you can't function at that level? If 8 is average, then 6 would be below average, 4 would be disfunctional, and 2 would most likely be retarded or handicapped in one way or another. I think you are honestly looking at things in much too of an extreme... If you interacted with Fubar at all I am sure you would see that the 6 Int and 8 Wis is played out very carefully and specifically. He is a challenge to play because of his stats, but that is what makes him fun to play. I would probably reconsider what I was typing to someone in this type of situation because you bascially told me I approach my RP from an idiot's perspective. South Park approach? Come on now... I said he died many times, not every day...

[Grigori]

Forest Gump was 8 Int, 6 is like... a 4 year old... maybe worse.

I disagree, I would classify Forest Gump as a 6 or 4 at the worst. 8 - 10 is average.

[Scarlett]

He had high WIS or CHA though. ♥

[Ithildur]

10-11 is an average stat . 8 is not, it's below average, hence the -1 modifier. That should be obvious.


Forest did have high WIS, I would concurr. Surprisingly high, much higher than the more 'intelligent' people around him time and time again. And Tymora granted him a take 20 on virtually every significant roll I think.

[Kaldaris]

Keep this in mind, and please plan your characters out beforehand if mechanics matter that much to you. Rerolls should not be done for Mechanics purposes- only for RP.

[Ethereal Edge]

By Dungeons and Dragons, the lowest stat you can get is 3, even with racial minuses. However, in Dungeons and Dragons, each point is considerable. Look at how much more weight you can carry every point of strength. 10-11 is considered an average intelligence, by the way. Not 8-10. So if you don't want to roleplay a character with 80-89 IQ I highly suggest you take 10 points of intelligence.

[Grigori]

The reason I say 8-10 is because some races are at a -2 which would mean 8 would be the average score for them... if you base averages on race of course.

[RSPK]

I can't help but feel that this point is somewhat moot. Players seem too concerned about others, so they often tend to write stuff like "no powerbuilding", just because they know that it is probably the hardest thing to define and/or police for the Team. (Funny how the same RP'ers who "don't care about stats at all", cant' stand that a character they don't like has more survivability than them)

You'll also have the same RP elitist people who will be rule-lawyering and "maximizing" the system, while an honest player is left with guilt because he might not know exactly how he is to play the game, and after some asshat has yelled to him "ROLEPLAY YOUR STATS!!"

What many people don't realize is that a an online community like Sundren is far more ruled by social stigmas than actual game mechanics, and for me "Powergamers" and "Powerroleplayers" both cheapen the setting.

Telling a low-int character that he can't talk or that a low-cha character can't hang out with you, is generally said because that there is a feeling that the playerbase has about negative stat-modifiers not giving enough repercussions, Well I say It's not YOUR call. Although this is a DM post and the DM's word is law, I think most players should be careful of what they tell other players what they can and can not do.

[Ethereal Edge]

No, it doesn't matter what's average to them. 10 is average, human intelligence, like you and I. Anything less isn't.

[Anauroch]

The reason I say 8-10 is because some races are at a -2 which would mean 8 would be the average score for them... if you base averages on race of course.

No, it doesn't matter what's average to them. 10 is average, human intelligence, like you and I. Anything less isn't.

Both true. An '8' is average to a race with a -2 racial mod to said score. So I'd say that people of said race are comfortable about a character with said '8' as if he'd have a '10' (referring mostly to Charisma). People of other races will see the character as below average though.

Concerning Intelligence - just because the character is of average intelligence for his race does not mean he is actually of average intelligence. Certainly not imo.

But... seriously... I don't see an '8' as too bad. I'd say 8-13 is the range that most people are in. Sure, 10-11 is average, but 8,9,12,13 you'll have quite often, too. Even among normal folk. So no reason to make too much a fuss about it...