Impressions of the server from a veteran

[Forlorn]

Here are my impressions of Sundren, after playing it since release of the BETA.

1) There are only like a few areas...though the areas are large, there is barely any activity in each individual area. Right now there are exactly 2 areas with monsters (goblins are one of them while mossclaw and sestra cave add up to the second one cause each by themselves are so tiny). This causes alot of grinding/farming to ensue by the players, and you can't blame them.

2) Devs spend too much time policing and not enough time building/scripting. The majority of the past 4 or 5 news announcements state policing issues instead of new areas. On every server that is populated you are going to get powergamers/grinders/griefers and instead of having a policy on how they should be handled by *players*, the devs instead waste time on things like: a password, scripts to prevent farming, and unnecessary PvP policies are are common sense everywhere. Really, if the players would learn to ignore the griefers, they'd leave much faster than setting up unnecessary policies that do nothing.

3) Devs unresponsive to player requests for help. Posting in the help section gets no response, and PMing GodBeast multiple times for a very simple deletion of your character gets no response either...not even a simple "no" or "yes", suggesting and fostering an elitist atmosphere.

4) Script system isn't up to par with other servers. The player helper when used doesn't bring up a small menu which is much more convenient but instead brings a close up on the character and the options are right on the screen without even a black space behind them, making it difficult to read them.

5) The world map takes out the fun and excitement of traveling. Just a simple click and you're halfway across the world. This makes it easier for the devs in that they don't have to build as many areas as other servers, but it takes the fun out of a true sense of adventure. One would think that with this system each area would be extremely vivid and breathtaking but in fact they are just ***OK***, making the system not all that its cracked up to be.

6) The RP is also ***OK***...with too many unnecessary complaints by players about how this person or that person doesn't RP or keeps farming/griefing...etc. Really folks, if you don't like a player, just ignore them, no need to explode over it by tattle tale-ing on the devs. Again, this totally detracts from their time developing or making new beautiful areas.

[Saulus]

Well, you have some very twisted views. Allow me to explain what's really going on.

1) There is Viridale Forest (two hostile zones), Sestra Caves, Sharahan Hills + Caves 1/2. There were a few issues with not enough encounters and them not respawning enough. This is in v1.0 ... Also we're shifting all of development over to dungeons and exploration zones now that we're very close to being done with the city.

2) Ridiculous. You have no clue what we do and who works on what. We've been working on projects for weeks that you haven't seen yet. If we update every day it slows down progress, that's why I keep talking about the city update.

3) You really are pushing it with this. We already discussed in another thread how many e-mails and PMs we get a day. We aren't your personal technical support, and we do have jobs and school. I'm sorry we don't have 16 hours a day to meet your needs. We do our best, and we get back to everyone. I'm actually very offended by this comment.

4) The server is BETA. It says beta when you join, the server name states beta. We explain in the journal it's beta. We explain on the forums it's beta. I'm sure you can look up the definition for this if you don't grasp it.

5) The World Map is the ONLY option for NWN2 if you have any intent to take building a world seriously. I can't stress this enough, people constantly complain about this. It's not to save on us spending time making areas. It's a very simple reason, modules in NWN2 are HUGE. If we follow the same buidling procedures as in NWN1 then we might be able to squeeze out a forest and a city before all the exterior roads and pointless areas increase the module size enough that it exceeds the capabilities of nwserver. It's a technical limitation. We can't re-engineer NWN2.

6) I can agree with this for the most part. We can't tell people to RP better, or ban them because they don't RP good enough. We simply weed out people making no effort to do so and those who are counter-productive.

[Ethereal Edge]

Doesn't this sort of contradict itself?

[Priest of Asmodeus]

Agreed Forlorn. I do how ever disagree about godbeast though he does listen and well he has a lot on his plate. It's a shame that the good server like Sundren has a hard time addressing part of where it lacks or is waining. Most concerned are flagged as inaccurate and false by certain crew members and posters then become vilified. I hope that they catch them selves before they completely go into free fall with out being able to catch them selves.

I do have to say that it is beta and they are working as hard as they can to get a product that people enjoy, they are just getting a head of them selves at the moment.

[Jhiroth]

Response.

Here are my impressions of Sundren, after playing it since release of the BETA.

Actually, shouldn't this read - "Here are my criticisms of Sundren".

1) There are only like a few areas...though the areas are large, there is barely any activity in each individual area.

Notice that this is the Sundren beta testing?

2) Devs spend too much time policing and not enough time building/scripting.

I am not really sure where you find the sense of entitlement to question the areas that people choose to work on for free.

3) Devs unresponsive to player requests for help. Posting in the help section gets no response, and PMing GodBeast multiple times for a very simple deletion of your character gets no response either...not even a simple "no" or "yes", suggesting and fostering an elitist atmosphere.

Sorry, I stopped reading this whine right around the time it conflicted with point #2. If people would stop PM'ing our staff to delete pfiles that the player in question either a) doesn't like to have to see, or b) just plain f'ed up, maybe they would have more time to build/script.

I'll admit I stopped reading your post after I realized it was just a series of complaints rather then ubiased observations.Sundren's world is not an on-demand, pay-per-view environment, where everything will always be 100% exactly the way you want it. If you feel Sundren is so inferior and you have so many better ideas, the great news about NWN2 is that you have every tool at your disposal to do just that and create your own PW.

We'd love to have you as a member of this community, but we do ask a few things. One, that you respect the hard work and effort that the staff puts in to make this world both immersive and fun, and you respect that that hard work takes both time and patience. We are still in beta testing, and much like looking at a house before it's finished is not an accurate picture of what it will be, so is Sundren. Please post any and all bugs/suggestions in the appropriate forums, and please PM any staff member with concerns about staff activity. Thanks, and have a great day.

[Ichbin]

Here are my impressions of Sundren, after playing it since release of the BETA.

1) There are only like a few areas...though the areas are large, there is barely any activity in each individual area. Right now there are exactly 2 areas with monsters (goblins are one of them while mossclaw and sestra cave add up to the second one cause each by themselves are so tiny). This causes alot of grinding/farming to ensue by the players, and you can't blame them.

I can agree, but this is temperary, since it IS a beta

2) Devs spend too much time policing and not enough time building/scripting. The majority of the past 4 or 5 news announcements state policing issues instead of new areas. On every server that is populated you are going to get powergamers/grinders/griefers and instead of having a policy on how they should be handled by *players*, the devs instead waste time on things like: a password, scripts to prevent farming, and unnecessary PvP policies are are common sense everywhere. Really, if the players would learn to ignore the griefers, they'd leave much faster than setting up unnecessary policies that do nothing.

Im kinda glad they're doing that. It gets rid of the riff-raff and makes things enjoyable for everyone else who actually try...

3) Devs unresponsive to player requests for help. Posting in the help section gets no response, and PMing GodBeast multiple times for a very simple deletion of your character gets no response either...not even a simple "no" or "yes", suggesting and fostering an elitist atmosphere.

I can somewhat agree, at least forget about having a char of yours deleted, lol. As far as being unresponsive, it varies. Sometimes they're busy and actually doing something, and other times they are not. You just have to get lucky, I can understand this.

4) Script system isn't up to par with other servers. The player helper when used doesn't bring up a small menu which is much more convenient but instead brings a close up on the character and the options are right on the screen without even a black space behind them, making it difficult to read them.

I dont see a problem with it really...does its job.

5) The world map takes out the fun and excitement of traveling. Just a simple click and you're halfway across the world. This makes it easier for the devs in that they don't have to build as many areas as other servers, but it takes the fun out of a true sense of adventure. One would think that with this system each area would be extremely vivid and breathtaking but in fact they are just ***OK***, making the system not all that its cracked up to be.

Uhm, the restrictions of NWN2 are tremendous, its not they're fault.

6) The RP is also ***OK***...with too many unnecessary complaints by players about how this person or that person doesn't RP or keeps farming/griefing...etc. Really folks, if you don't like a player, just ignore them, no need to explode over it by tattle tale-ing on the devs. Again, this totally detracts from their time developing or making new beautiful areas.

I agree about the Tattle taleing thing, lol Ichbin got that acouple of times just *smacks head and rolls eyes* BEING EVIL! As far as ((OK)) I think at least 70-80% of the players out there are doing an outstanding job with their chars.

..not to downplay your opinions, just playing the devil's advocate.

[Clutch]

Here are my impressions of Sundren, after playing it since release of the BETA.

1) There are only like a few areas...though the areas are large, there is barely any activity in each individual area. Right now there are exactly 2 areas with monsters (goblins are one of them while mossclaw and sestra cave add up to the second one cause each by themselves are so tiny). This causes alot of grinding/farming to ensue by the players, and you can't blame them.

Nice try, but:
1. The server is BETA.
2. There is a password on the server, as good as all the powergamers ( read grinders and farmers ) are gone.
3. The DM's, and other players, have stated over and over and over again that there will be more dungeons after Sundren is installed. So have some patience.


2) Devs spend too much time policing and not enough time building/scripting. The majority of the past 4 or 5 news announcements state policing issues instead of new areas. On every server that is populated you are going to get powergamers/grinders/griefers and instead of having a policy on how they should be handled by *players*, the devs instead waste time on things like: a password, scripts to prevent farming, and unnecessary PvP policies are are common sense everywhere. Really, if the players would learn to ignore the griefers, they'd leave much faster than setting up unnecessary policies that do nothing.

'If the players would learn', tolerance is nice, but don't stretch it.. you know as well as anyone that you can't place roleplayers and griefers on the same tile.
Plus stating, without any evidence at all, that the builders don't work on the mod enough ? I'd give my kingdom for a e-punch-to-the-nose option right now.

4) Script system isn't up to par with other servers. The player helper when used doesn't bring up a small menu which is much more convenient but instead brings a close up on the character and the options are right on the screen without even a black space behind them, making it difficult to read them.

Nice try, but it does since a day or.. what.. 4..5 ? Check again.


6) The RP is also ***OK***...with too many unnecessary complaints by players about how this person or that person doesn't RP or keeps farming/griefing...etc. Really folks, if you don't like a player, just ignore them, no need to explode over it by tattle tale-ing on the devs. Again, this totally detracts from their time developing or making new beautiful areas.

Again, perhaps you didn't notice, this is a -roleplay- server. Role-play, r o l e p l a y, not 'ignore-the-powergamers'. But eh.. listen to yourself, who is the elitist now ?

Your post is like totally NOT helping the DM's. It's like watching a man climb up a mountain only to kick him down at the last ledge. Nice downer *thumbs up*

Agreed Forlorn. I do how ever disagree about godbeast though he does listen and well he has a lot on his plate. It's a shame that the good server like Sundren has a hard time addressing part of where it lacks or is waining. Most concerned are flagged as inaccurate and false by certain crew members and posters then become vilified. I hope that they catch them selves before they completely go into free fall with out being able to catch them selves.

Wow, you know how much new crew there is right now ? I can imagine them getting their things together and appointing possitions before continueing with the real deal. not to mention the fact that every thread at the suggestion forum is being responded and noted to. What more do you want ? 150 pages of thorough investigation ?

[GodBeastX]

My turn to reply? Cool! Let me see. *Browses the formulated list*

1) More dungeons are coming, and it's hardly our falk players like the doorway to Port Avanthyr more than the rest of the server. Alot of area we use for DM events as well. It isn't just there to fill with monsters. If you DM for awhile you'll see that running things where there are spawns generally screws up events.

2) Ummm... why do we spend time policing? Because players spend time breaking rules. If players would read rules, and abide them, we wouldn't have to police. Sundren isn't here just for players, it's here for DM's too. Griefers and powergamers detract from OUR play time as well, and we don't ignore them. Pointing them out to us actually saves us time since it only takes 10 seconds for me to deal with someone than the time it takes me to "Police" as you say. And how much time do I spend policing versus Dev'ing? If you knew what was on the plate for next major update you wouldn't have even posted this.

3) I'm going to have to reply with an attitude to this one since it feels like a personal stab at me. You are not the most important player on Sundren, you screwed up your own character so you can wait until I get to your character because as you said in #2, I spend alot of time dealing with other people as well. Is it really my fault Obisidian doesn't have a good method of fixing your level 1 character mistakes? And now I have to waste more time policing forums because a player decides to rant over non-existent issues.

By the way, his "unresponsive" thread went this way:

First post
Forlorn: 1 Day Ago
Second Post... wait, what's this? Me replying RIGHT after his post?
GodBeastX: 1 Day Ago
He replied again
Forlorn: 1 Day ago
Then ANOTHER DM replied?! Wait... I thought we ignore help posts.
Ethereal Edge: 1 Day ago
Forlorn: 1 Day Ago
Forlorn: 1 Day Ago <-- here is when he finally decided what he wanted


4) When was the last time you used the OOC tool? Last I checked it brought up a menu just like you said? Oh wait, you don't actually bother to research your complaints before you post them.

5) Ummm, tell Obsidian to make outdoor maps not take 50 megs each and we'll think about putting in complete roads to a location.

6) People complain because people break rules. Stop breaking rules and people stop complaining. Funny how that works?



Now, I will make a list of my own.

1) We offer a free service that we dedicate free time to (I work 50 hour weeks by the way as a C++ programmer) and still manage to put 50 - 70 hours of time a week into sundren.

2) Why don't you help us help you instead of complaining? Is adding an extra letter to your character's name to have a fresh one all that horrible until I can get the old one deleted?

3) Try reading other threads and checking up on things in the game. The fact you complained about the OOC tool that has been changed for days leads me to believe you can't be bothered too.

4) Stop acting like we force you to play here under horrible conditions. We are in Beta trying to get things done and manage your complaints too. If it's not up to what you pay for, you can always ask for your money back and move to a new server.

Posts like this sometimes make me wonder why I even bother to work on PW's... I don't get paid, it's not fun to deal with the attitude some people give, and it's not like I can put "Made a PW" on my resume.

[GodBeastX]

Oh, I think I'll just change all the rules to "There are no rules, do whatever you want! Forlorn said I shouldn't enforce rules!"

K, now I'm done.

[Priest of Asmodeus]

yes clutch, i do. I want a regular Giraldo's Al Capone's vault investigation. What I'm saying is whats going on with this post. Players attacked Forlorn, Staff attacked Forlorn. Instead of reading what he has to say and thinking about it, people snapped at him and insulted him. They don't know him and they probably don't care to. I how ever feel he has valid points that needs to be addressed and not brushed off, and to make Forlorn a Bad guy or worthless for bringing it up.

I understand you don't have to play here but when you invest time some place its not easy to just get up and leave. Forlorn should be listen to not attacked.

[GodBeastX]

yes clutch, i do. I want a regular Giraldo's Al Capone's vault investigation. What I'm saying is whats going on with this post. Players attacked Forlorn, Staff attacked Forlorn. Instead of reading what he has to say and thinking about it, people snapped at him and insulted him. They don't know him and they probably don't care to. I how ever feel he has valid points that needs to be addressed and not brushed off, and to make Forlorn a Bad guy or worthless for bringing it up.

I understand you don't have to play here but when you invest time some place its not easy to just get up and leave. Forlorn should be listen to not attacked.

Very well Priest, what points are we not addressing?

[Sylvanas_Kathar]

man...seriously, in the words of the Govenator in Kindergarten Cop,

"STOP IT! STOP WHINING!!"

Realize that this is a BETA. B-E-T-A. According to wikipedia:
"beta release usually represents the first version of a computer program that implements all features in the initial requirements analysis. It is likely to be useful for internal demonstrations and previews to select customers, but unstable and not yet ready for release. Some developers refer to this stage as a preview, as a technical preview (TP) or as an early access."

Meaning, its not finished. There is expected to be bugs still, and things are not finished, not all areas are ready, etc etc etc. You cannot sit there and complain about there not being enough areas or things not working properly in a BETA. Seriously....

And the argument about DMs not responding to your every request right then and there when you want it, thats just preposterous. They have lives, and they have others to attend to as well. They are providing you with a FREE service, and a much better one than others I've had to pay for.

If you are unsatisfied with your experience here, or think that the DMs are out to get you, then just quit your bitching and move on.

[Mikara]

Wow, I disagree blatantly with almost every opinion you have offered. The areas have the most thorough and interesting design I have seen in any nwn world and are great places for dm events, which are the heart of the server, not static premade dungeons which you seem to want more of.

Well since you are a veteran you will eventually find a world that suits you, but this is by far the best I have ever come across personally for three main reasons: quality of players, dms, and area design.

[Baculus]

I do heartily agree with number 1; but it's beta- the only problem I have with it is that just doing it several times is considered "grinding" when you don't have another area to explore. The port gets pretty old after the first dozen times. *rolls eyes*

I also do muse that there is to much policing on the server; but(besides that annoying XP script) I also realized you can't have your cake and eat it to.

This is a roleplaying server- and to roleplay, and have a good environment to roleplay you just can't have OOC and the like everywhere. There needs to be strict rules or this environment cannot be sustained.

Sundren has problems- quite a few; some I think will be fixed- others won't. But I dare you to find a better role playing server; that looks better and has a nicer community. Besides Godbeast mashing the smite button(>_<) ; he really does listen to you- and the staff does respond promptly for the amount of people they do have.

While I also think you should be able to post your thoughts without being stoned to death... I think your just asking for it like this. *rolls eyes*

[Clutch]

yes clutch, i do. I want a regular Giraldo's Al Capone's vault investigation. What I'm saying is whats going on with this post. Players attacked Forlorn, Staff attacked Forlorn. Instead of reading what he has to say and thinking about it, people snapped at him and insulted him. They don't know him and they probably don't care to. I how ever feel he has valid points that needs to be addressed and not brushed off, and to make Forlorn a Bad guy or worthless for bringing it up.

I understand you don't have to play here but when you invest time some place its not easy to just get up and leave. Forlorn should be listen to not attacked.

Valid points ? Damn man, stating that the crew doesn't put any work in the mod besides policing is not a point. It's grabbing the crew by their respective balls and saying they suck. If he was arsed to put more research into his 'points' he wouldn't have been burned to his shoe laces, because frankly, this is retarted.

No offence intended, meh.. maybe a little bit