HiPS on rangers and assassins

[enterprise]

Hi.

As the subject suggests, this is a dangerous discussion.
I have looked at alot of the older hide/Walk silently (and partly) / HiPS threads. Anyway, i don't intend to start that discussion again.


Rather my question is in the understanding of HiPS for assassins and rangers, since everyone seems to be pretty clear on what goes on for the SD.

My question is as follows:

In PnP, as far as i know, assassins have their own list of spells as the ranger or paladin does. In NwN this is changed to a viarity of "sneaky" spells such as invisibility and Darkness. Thats all good and fun. Anyway; what happens in PnP when he hides? Is HiPS excisting in PnP, and if so, do the assassin because of his magical abilities "blend" into shadows sort of like the SD, but with a magical (arcane?) approach to his hiding?

As for the ranger, the case is the same - even though he kept atleast some of his spells. The fact that he can only use HiPS outside to me suggests that "blends" with nature - a thing he, as the assassin, is able to do via his practical and magical approach to hidind and sneaking.

This is ofcourse mostly concearning RP in Sundren and generel interest in the PnP...


Let me know!

[Phantom Lamb]

All classes that use HIPS must still make hide rolls. Even SDs, who use shadow to attempt to hide, must still make a hide ROLL, qualified by the appropriate bonuses and subtractors to their hiding based on environment.

All HIPS allows you to do is attempt a roll in a situation where you otherwise wouldn't be able to.

Unfortunately, the NWN2 game engine does not take environmental factors into hiding (trees, rocks, and limited shadows give no + or -). Unless you work it out otherwise, or are in a DM event, just use the standard rolls by PCs without modifiers.

[BurningEagle]

I'd define hips, rangers obtain, just as you said it Enterprise. A ranger is home within his woods. But unlike some other inhabitants of forestral areas, the ranger is able to communicate with the nature. He protects every spot of nature as if his own limbs grow with the stem of the oak, growing upon that particular spot. He communicates with the animals and lives among them as if he was one of them, accepted. Therefor it would be natural that in peril, the nature tiself would hide the ranger from view. Hide in plain side. Blended.

However, what mattars Assassins, it's a fact that assassins have a magical bone in their body. Though they are not lead by magic, and the bone alone would certainly not suffice to make the body walk. The shadows is their domains. I'd rather say an assassin suffices for hide in plain sight, because the shadows are domestic.

[Phantom Lamb]

Boy do I hate this argument.

Opinions are like opinions--everyone has one. Wait a minute, that doesn't work, hmmm...

Well, since I have nothing snappy to add, I'll just note that we'll make an OFFICIAL HIPS ruling for Sundren very soon. This has always been a pet peave of mine, and there are far too many variants on how HIPS works.

[BurningEagle]

I was speaking of the roleplay reasoning

[Product of Void]

Yes in 3.5 assassins get spells with their class. In nwn1 they got a few crappy spells and more sneak ability with an death attack.

NWN2 they get hips.

Even the new classes borrow from other class spell books. Its hard coded as far as I know for spells so very hard if not impossible to add casting to assassins. Actually their casting is a feat with a spell attached to it like many other racial feats.

NWN is baised of DnD but NWN is not DnD.

Though the really cool part is on a low magic world Assassin class is actually use able their spells are useful and the death attack works. Seeing not everyone has mind immunity, or runs around with protect from evil. (which disables the death attack, yet still allows the sneak damage).

I think that was the orginal topic was about the lack of spell list?

If its about hips

Ranger -get hips when outside, so when in a natural invorement map they can use hips. In a city or such it should be disabled so they can only sneak like a basic rogue.

Assassin- can hide anywere they are sneaky folk who jump out of shadows and kill things.

Shadow dancer - can hide anywere they become kinda shadowy people (yet have no perform skill requirment nor dancing...huh).

my understanding need staff to actually say what is and not what is assumed.

[Azulfae]

If you try and reason a skill like HiPS you will never come up with a viable answer because it's not realistic.

Stealth is about moving in the shadows and using cover and all that. HiPS is a more mystical ascension of these abilities to a point that average jo just can't comprehend.

Don't try and get into the mind of your character and understand his abilities from his own point of view because it just spoils the mysticism.

Look at your PC as other people see him, from a 3rd person point of view.
Think of how the ability creates an impression on others. One moment the guy is there and the next he is gone... only problem is he isn't. That's really scary.

Leave it at that, you'll never understand and neither will they. Your PC is something dark and uncomprehendable, a living shadow.

This is one of the reasons Shadow dancers have always been so hard to RP. You play them for the performance you make to other people, not for yourself.

[c2k]

HiPS in PnP is the ability to blend into your surroundings, like a crowd, bushes, etc.

In PnP, you can't really go into hiding in open areas like magic(unless, you use magic hehe), but rather you utilize all of your surroundings to disappear without anyone noticing.

[Biohazard89]

Like c2k said...its just a really good way of dissappearing..

Like Army Rangers in forest Camo within the forest kind of way..

[Azulfae]

You guys want to be your characters too much. Your character is just so good at hiding you'll never understand how they do it.

Let yourself be freaked out and don't look for answers.

Imagine staring at a ranger stood in the woods, you see his outline, he stands absolutly still, looks you in the eye. You focus on his eyes and then as you try and focus back out again to watch his movement you loose track of his shape. He hasn't moved but you lost him somehow. You find yourself looking at trees, looking around at trees... which one was he by, dammit!

How did he do it? You'll never know.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Cats in real life have HIPs. Short answer: Find a cat that speaks -.-

Seriously I think Azulfae nailed it on the head!

[Azulfae]

One time I walked up to my wife in the street and stood right infront of her. We were both facing each other and she got out her phone and called me. I looked at her like she was completely retarded and answered the phone. She then asked where I was at which point I laughed and put my hand on her shoulder and she screamed.

It's a gift and a curse. this happens to me quite often, unfortunately part of my job means I occasionally direct traffic in central london.

[Product of Void]

HAHAHA you too eh? I sneak up on here all the time. I used to carry about 20 bucks in quarters and had a wallet chain to make more noise so folks would not be shocked when I walk up on them.

Best advice is take a little realism with your fantasy. Don't over think it. Doing that ruins movies and other things.

[Azulfae]

Also if concrete decisions are reached on how this sort of thing works, then it takes the creative flare out of the roleplaying of that skill for individuals.

[Urithrand]

As Phantom Lamb has already stated, this subject is one of great debate amungst the DMs and Admins right now, and we will be making an official rule about what is and is not achievable with HiPS over the next few days. We appreciate all your input, but the subject can go round and round continually. This is one subject where people have wildly differing opinions, and believe me when I say that all these different opinions are being considered in out final decision. For now though I don't feel there's much that this thread can achieve discussing something that's already being decided.