Invisibility

[Maxx Powers]

I dunno, it might be something exclusively melee related?

Like those martial arts movies where the guy trains blindfolded to be get used to reacting to blows from all directions without relying on vision Then it could be just "combat awareness", like using the enemies footwork and blows to determine their general direction to attack back at them, but just that.

Since Blind Fighting doesn't relies on Spot or Listen, nor does it gives any bonus to those skills, I think it only helps getting a better feel of the position of your opponents when in melee combat, but if the invisible person doesn't goes into combat with you the feat doesn't helps you pinpointing them at all

Cheatcake, you pretty much described the feat perfectly, though the melee touch attack i mention is not an "attack" its a method of location (like waving your arms around, trying to find them)

Ithildur, i'm going by what the original post says, you pass listen by 20+ or perform the melee touch attack to find them, blind fight feat just give you a re-roll on the melee touch, so, yes, it does allow more precision in the strike.

[Cheatcake]

Ahhh I get what you mean. I think It might be just the wording

Let's say then that with Blind Fighting you are better at guessing the position of something invisible that is in melee with you, how does that sounds?

You would just need to know there is something invisible at melee range there and have a general idea of their position to try "blind poking" to find where they are

[Maxx Powers]

Ahhh I get what you mean. I think It might be just the wording

Let's say then that with Blind Fighting you are better at guessing the position of something invisible that is in melee with you, how does that sounds?

You would just need to know there is something invisible at melee range there and have a general idea of their position to try "blind poking" to find where they are

Exactly

[Ethereal Edge]

I'll post definitions for invisibility, blindsight, blindsense, and blindfight when I get home, if someone else hasn't.

[Priest of Asmodeus]

ugh the game has a mechanic installed for this. trying to find ways around it like we feel the weave ect to gain an advantage is kinda lame. If you see some one transparent you see them if you don't you don't. I think you guys are looking to far into a situation that only tuna can deep.

As per the magic system in the pen and paper system there is like 5 ways of casting magic due to the tomb of magic book.

[Ithildur]

Cheatcake, you pretty much described the feat perfectly, though the melee touch attack i mention is not an "attack" its a method of location (like waving your arms around, trying to find them)

Ithildur, i'm going by what the original post says, you pass listen by 20+ or perform the melee touch attack to find them, blind fight feat just give you a re-roll on the melee touch, so, yes, it does allow more precision in the strike.

hmm..

BLIND-FIGHT [GENERAL]

Benefit: In melee, every time you miss because of concealment, you can reroll your miss chance percentile roll one time to see if you actually hit.
An invisible attacker gets no advantages related to hitting you in melee. That is, you don’t lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the attacker doesn’t get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible. The invisible attacker’s bonuses do still apply for ranged attacks, however.
You take only half the usual penalty to speed for being unable to see. Darkness and poor visibility in general reduces your speed to three-quarters normal, instead of one-half.
Normal: Regular attack roll modifiers for invisible attackers trying to hit you apply, and you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC. The speed reduction for darkness and poor visibility also applies.
Special: The Blind-Fight feat is of no use against a character who is the subject of a blink spell.
A fighter may select Blind-Fight as one of his fighter bonus feats.

I'm not sure if that indicates Blindfight gives you a reroll on the pinpointing of target/touch attack (which is not the same as the actual melee attack that would follow pinpointing the target); it's clear that it gives you a reroll once you are engaged in meleeing with them.

If it does not, the feat does seem like it should help someone detect/pinpoint the invis being, which is why I'm suggesting a bonus to spot/listen. Someone with high sensitivity/training to fight blinded could likely also have extra sharp sensitivity towards the presence of an unseen person nearby as well; seems to make sense to me, but I wouldn't assume it. It's called Blind FIGHT, not Blind SENSE. It's not the same as having ability to see invis like dragons etc.

[treznorx]

I would think someone would need tracking and blind-fighting to sucessfully find and attack an invisable character. I think my whole point is that in all teh time I have played D&D there has always been a non-magical way to defeat invisability. One that was agreed on by those I was playing with. Invisibility should not be taken for granted, which I believe is happening with all the invis mages walking about. I am sure a ranger would be alarmed at all the invis creatures he is sensing. Also a little off topic, for rangers tracking skill, if you set a PC to agro then they show up as monsters in the tracking map.

[Cheatcake]

I'm not sure if that indicates Blindfight gives you a reroll on the pinpointing of target/touch attack (which is not the same as the actual melee attack that would follow pinpointing the target); it's clear that it gives you a reroll once you are engaged in meleeing with them.

If it does not, the feat does seem like it should help someone detect/pinpoint the invis being, which is why I'm suggesting a bonus to spot/listen. Someone with high sensitivity/training to fight blinded could likely also have extra sharp sensitivity towards the presence of an unseen person nearby as well; seems to make sense to me, but I wouldn't assume it. It's called Blind FIGHT, not Blind SENSE. It's not the same as having ability to see invis like dragons etc.

I think if it was supposed to give skill bonuses it would be doing so

The feat means you're trained to fight things you can't see. Note the "fight", not "find" I see it as meaning you are better at guessing the position of someone invisible and attacking them but only after you're aware of them, like if they attack you first or if they step in front of you and throw threats in your face

[Priest of Asmodeus]

I would think someone would need tracking and blind-fighting to sucessfully find and attack an invisable character. I think my whole point is that in all teh time I have played D&D there has always been a non-magical way to defeat invisability. One that was agreed on by those I was playing with. Invisibility should not be taken for granted, which I believe is happening with all the invis mages walking about. I am sure a ranger would be alarmed at all the invis creatures he is sensing. Also a little off topic, for rangers tracking skill, if you set a PC to agro then they show up as monsters in the tracking map.

rangers don't sense anything.
the tracking application in the game is a meta game mechanic.

rangers can only track, well tracks left behind, and physical changes in the environment ie bent twigs on plants from brushing up against them ect.
you cant sense every living thing around you at all times , not in PnP anyways. There are ways around invisibility like throwing silt on the floor, around you, in the air. Listen check but you can also move silently while invisibility is acting on you. you can cast disspell. run into water the ripples in the water will help detect.

again though looking for loop holes isnt cool. use your head instead

[Ithildur]

Alright, some helpful comments by everyone, but I say let's allow the DMs to make the calls at this point before it degenerates into flaming...

[Ethereal Edge]

Let me make this clear right now since this is my domain:

This is not Inuyasha, Star Wars, Bleach, etc. You do not 'feel' the Weave for presences in the area, that's reserved for people like Elminster and Mystra or similar characters that can roll 100 on their spellcraft checks. Please don't 'feel' the Weave anymore. It's underage.

[Ethereal Edge]

Ithildur got it dead on with the blind-fight feat.

[Invisibility]
Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2, Trickery 2
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal or touch
Target: You or a creature or object weighing no more than 100 lb./level
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) or Will negates (harmless, object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless) or Yes (harmless, object)

The creature or object touched becomes invisible, vanishing from sight, even from darkvision. If the recipient is a creature carrying gear, that vanishes, too. If you cast the spell on someone else, neither you nor your allies can see the subject, unless you can normally see invisible things or you employ magic to do so.

Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Light, however, never becomes invisible, although a source of light can become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). Any part of an item that the subject carries but that extends more than 10 feet from it becomes visible.

Of course, the subject is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the recipient detectable (such as stepping in a puddle). The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. (Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character?s perceptions.) Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area.

Invisibility can be made permanent (on objects only) with a permanency spell.

Arcane Material Component
An eyelash encased in a bit of gum arabic.

Blindsight (Ex): Using nonvisual senses, such as sensitivity to vibrations, scent, acute hearing, or echolocation, the creature maneuvers and fights as well as a sighted creature. Invisibility and darkness are irrelevant, though the creature still can't discern ethereal beings. The ability's range is specified in the creature's descriptive text. The creature usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice creatures within range of its blind sight ability.

[Maxx Powers]

I think i mixed up my blind----- abilities at one point, so i'll just let the DM's finalize that one.

This whole jedi-weave-feeling thing should probably be ignored, or only used while the spell is being casted.

[Priest of Asmodeus]

blind site was never that powerful before, you cant see normally if your blind or have no eyes. Im not sure what source you found that on?

EDIT
players handbook 3.5 page 89
but the definition and ability was all ready posted before.

all it does is you retain dex and you can reroll misses from concealment

as per the nwn2 manual it doesnt state it acts differently than PnP

[Ethereal Edge]

Start reading what I post, there's a huge difference between:

Blind FIGHT
Blind SIGHT

and

Blind SENSE

You're getting mixed up with reading words, the most of you.